LATE UNUSED BOXED BURMOS 21

Discussion in 'Townson & Coxson' started by kaw550red, Dec 22, 2009.

  1. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    The 21 is well covered in this section but this one is unusual in that it is in a cardboard box without a tin.

    As it is unused I assume that this was one of the options that were available when buying the model. Previously I thought that all 21s came in a tin which was prone to split so I thought that the tins had split and been discarded.

    They are difficult to date but there are two indications of age. The burner with the central screw was created in 1942 and a patent was obtained for it. Any stove with a Burmos burner without the screw is unlikely to have been made much later than 1942. Any burners with the screw could not have been made before 1942. The idea was that removing the screw allowed you to use a straight nipple key to remove and replace the nipple. The screws are prone to rust into place but can be freed by lighting the stove or heating with a blow lamp.

    The idea was successful enough that UK's then War Dept. (WD) insisted that all of their stoves were fitted with this type of burner and I think Burmos gave other stove makers a license to produce the burner for WD use. The license did not seem to grant rights for producing the burners for civilian stoves as the burners did not appear on other makes until the 1960s.

    The burner was one method of putting the stoves into a period and the engraving is another. Early stoves had engraved tanks and I think that this continued until probably the 1960s when selling paraffin stoves became difficult. The manufacturing costs were reduced by missing the engraving off the tank and simply marking the tank with a transfer stating the brand but not the model number.

    Most of the examples that I have seen do not have the lighter on them. This does so I presume that the lighters came as standard but got lost.

    It is possible that the later stoves were put into cardboard boxes rather than tins to reduce the cost to try to make the stoves competitive with gas (lpg) stoves which took over from the early 1960s

    1261506440-Burm_21_ass_opt.jpg 1261506472-Burm_21_lighte_opt.jpg 1261506495-Burm_21_Burner_opt.jpg 1261506511-Burm_21_Box_opt.jpg

    Regards Bryan
     
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  2. Wim

    Wim Subscriber

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    Hi Brian, as usual, very informative! Thanks a lot for your effords to share your knowledge with us poor souls :clap: .
    I have two of these Burmii (work in progress to get them alive again :roll: ) and I found out the lenght of the pump tubes is different (and the pump rods too naturally). Have you experienced the same? Both came in identical metal boxes.

    Kind regards,

    Wim
     
  3. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    Hi Wim

    I hope that you do not have any trouble with the pump valve.

    I have never found out whether this was official policy but if not it was fairly common. Many of the pump valves are installed without lead washers. They managed to tighten them sufficiently to get a seal between the two brass surfaces. I have found them impossible to get out by normal means and now pull the pump tube out, remove the end to get at the pump cap and then lock the pump valve head in a vice and twist the cap with a Mole grip. I then have to reassemble the pump tube and reinstall it. You may have heard me swearing whilst I was doing it.

    I have frequently had the problem on 21s but do not know whether it applies to other Burmos models

    I have never measured the pump rods but they tend to vary slightly between different models in any case. There are currently two of the 21 rods lying on my desk at my elbow as I type this. Unfortunately both take the later plastic pump washers which are difficult to find

    Regards Bryan
     
  4. Wim

    Wim Subscriber

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    Hi Brian, troubles with the nrv valve??? Yessir!!! On one, the bottom simply dropped out when I tried to get the valve out! So, unsolder pump, undo valve, resolder bottom & pump! N°2 is another joke, someone refitted the nrv with a rubber seal, which started swelling and prevents removal of the nrv the normal way... Another de-solder/re-solder job in waiting :roll:
    Life's full of fun innit!?! :whistle:

    Regards,

    Wim
     
  5. RonPH

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    Yesssireee! That's fun disassembling the pump housing. Lucky for me it came off quite easily on my 210.

    Ron
     
  6. Wim

    Wim Subscriber

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    Hi Ron, getting them off isn't the difficult part, getting them back on is much more tricky! :?

    Regards,

    Wim
     
  7. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    Hi Wim

    I got one 21 which had a messy solder repair around the pump tube. I tidied the repair up and then found the pump valve was leaking but was seized in. I pulled the pump tube, extracted the valve replaced the tube and and then found that I had a leak on the pump valve cap. Out came the pump tube and I corrected my mistake and replaced the tube for the second time making a nice neat joint around the tube.

    I then tried the stove and found that I had completely wasted my time because the original messy repair was not to seal the pump tube joint but to cover invisible stress fractures in the metal around the pump tube.

    There was steam coming out of my ears! I had removed and refitted the pump tube twice and the tank was goosed

    Regards Bryan
     
  8. Spiritburner

    Spiritburner Admin SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Nice to see - I haven't seen the cardboard version!

    The catalogue here in the listing for the smaller model 96 states that 'In the event of tin box not being obtainable, outfit is supplied in strong cardboard box' Elsewhere it mentions some products may not be available to shortages of raw materials. Another possible explanation?
     
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  9. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    Hi Ross

    That is certainly a possibility but I have the feeling that it is a budget model. It is one of those annoying feelings that are difficult to justify but will not go away. Budget models were usually stoves with various parts missing such as spirit cans and windshields. This stove did not have a spirit can which I would consider essential but it does have a windshield and igniter. The windshield is desirable but not essential. The igniter is a luxury which is not necessary. The instructions were missing so it is possible that it and the spirit can had been taken from the box and never replaced.

    There is another problem with it being issued in the cardboard box if they ran out of boxes. If that had been the case I would have expected that the cardboard box should have been big enough to take the original tins because the tinned stoves would be normal and it would only be exceptional to issue the stoves without tins. If that was so there would be no reason to stock two sizes of cardboard boxes for the stoves. If you look at the box the proportions look wrong to take a tin. The cardboard box is much more square than the 21 tin boxes.

    It is possible that the stoves in tins were sold in parallel with those solely in cardboard boxes

    CORRECTION

    At the beginning of this topic I made statements about 21s being made before 1942. I now believe those statements to be wrong. I now think that it is probable that the 21 was introduced after WW2 to fill the void caused by the absence of Swedish stoves because of import restrictions.

    By the 1940s tubular feet were very dated on 1 pint stoves. Folding feet were first used on 1/2 pint stoves in 1926 by Primus and I presume that they were probably fitted to the 210s at about the same time. That made me assume that this was probably an early design. However I have checked all of the photos of the 21s on the website and none of them have a burner without the central screw which was only introduced in 1942. The rising tube on this stove was not produced by Primus until 1936. Previously the 210 rising tube was similar to an Optimus 00 one so the 21 could not have been a copy of an earlier Primus

    On checking the British makers it appears that 1 pint stoves were completely ignored prior to WW2. The only 1 pint stove that I can find that might be prewar is a Parasene 230 but there is no clue to its age. The RM/Thermidor/Veritas 1 pint model was post war and those stoves, the 21 and the Parasene 230 appear to be the sum total of British 1 pint stoves

    Prior to WW2 there were numerous Swedish 1 pint stoves. Primus 230s, 210s, Optimus 00s, Radius 20s and Svea 121s and it appears that the British makers did not choose to compete against those stoves. There are probably several more Swedish 1 pint models.

    I had assumed that the 21 was a copy of the Primus 21 because of the features on it and the choice of of model number.

    It is similar to the PRIMUS 230 however the only photos that I can find show the earlier rising tube which was also used on the Primus 210 until 1935.

    The rising tube and reserve lid on the 21 were only used on the 210s from 1936. The tank and fittings on the 21 are straight copies of a Primus 210 only the feet are different.

    Because I cannot find any 21s with plain burners I now think that the model was introduced after WW2 finished in 1945.

    All of the British 1 pint stoves appear to be copies of Primus 210s. What superficially seemed to be a lazy method of producing a "new" stove was a very clever commercial decision which is not obvious unless you understand the situation in the UK at that time.

    The UK is a small island nation whose natural resources had been plundered for a long time prior to WW2. We did not have vast supplies of metal ores. During the war anything could be requisition by the government for the war effort. That included vehicles, boats, homes, land and metal. At the beginning of the war many older houses, schools, parks and cemeteries had iron railings. That did not last long. The authorities came round with acetylene cutters and removed the lot to be turned into weapons! There was also a collection of aluminium items. Vehicles came round and housewives dashed out and donated pans and the like to be converted into war planes. At least that collection was voluntary. Young people probably assume that the government paid for all war materials but that is not true. Wealthy people bought Spitfires for the RAF often to commemorate a killed relative that had been aircrew. Factories and works had Spitfire funds where the workers donated part of their earnings and had fund raising events to buy Spitfires for the RAF. When they raised sufficient funds to buy a plane they simply started all over again. Towns had destroyer fund raising events that raised funds to buy destroyers for the navy.

    As well as being targets for the enemy planes the civilians took an active part in creating war materials.

    I never heard of a collection of brass objects but bearing in mind the other efforts that were made to obtain metals for weapon manufacture it seems highly improbable that brass would be overlooked. It is the most basic war ingredient. Shell and cartridge cases are made out of brass and a gun is useless without shells or cartridges. I suspect that many stoves and spare parts were donated for the war effort.

    Now I come to the point of this digression.

    The war ended and we had no foreign stoves coming into the country. British makers would be making their prewar stoves when possible but there was a severe shortage of steel which stopped some stoves being made. People were again able to pursue prewar activities such as camping. But there were no 1 pint stoves available and probably no spares for the Swedish 1 pint stoves bought before the war. The British makers seem to have seen a double edged opportunity. They started to make 1 pint stoves. Instead of using their own designs they picked the design of a very popular Swedish stove the Primus 210 that was made immediately before the war. In the case of the Burmos 21 they fitted tubular feet instead of folding feet. As a marketing ploy it was very clever for two reasons. It could be sold as a copy of a 210 which was a very reliable stove. However there was another less obvious benefit. Spare parts for the copies also fit the Swedish stoves which would not be obtainable. Immediately the stoves were released they could start selling spares for the Swedish prewar stoves. If they had chosen new designs the spares would not have been required until the stoves were much older.

    Those were supposed to be the good old days!

    Regards Bryan
     
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  10. Spiritburner

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    Browsing through my British Manufacturers file you don't see any 1 pint paraffin stoves advertised prior to WWII. There are 96 clones & '45' clones & some models that were uniquely British as well as a broad range of fixed leg domestics & ranges.