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Monitor C11 (new old stock M. o D.) c.1956

Discussion in 'Monitor' started by Go Scout, May 14, 2016.

  1. Go Scout

    Go Scout United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Firstly the photo's (mainly 'as received'):

    20160514_151643.jpg 20160514_152541.jpg 20160514_151959.jpg 20160514_152011.jpg 20160514_152024.jpg 20160514_152044.jpg 20160514_152100.jpg 20160514_152110.jpg 20160514_151703.jpg 20160514_152217.jpg 20160514_151742.jpg 20160514_151845.jpg 20160514_151816.jpg 20160514_151914.jpg

    ... and now the flame shots, but featuring a used trivet in some of the pictures!

    Firstly outdoors . . .
    20160514_162337.jpg 20160514_161231.jpg 20160514_161257.jpg

    . . . and then in the somewhat darker confines of my workshop . . .

    20160514_163333.jpg 20160514_163501.jpg 20160514_163416.jpg

    . . . only the flame was burning so cleanly, it's all but invisible!

    Before firing her up, I added 3 drips of 3-in-1 oil to the pump tube to lubricate the pump washer and swapped over the lead washer from underneath the spirit cup with a super duper Fettlebox item. After a slight leakage from just above the spirit cup, I then added an upper burner washer which did the trick. The burner was only tightened by hand and not even 'nipped up tight' with a spanner. The spirit cup was a bit mis-shapened upon arrival, so I had a quick go at straightening it up.

    The initial flame (outdoors) was a bit yellow and there was a small leak as mentioned in the previous paragraph. However, second attempt and all is well, except that the flame is such a pale blue, it doesn't show up outside! So I took the stove, still alight, into the relatively darker confines of the workshop. Still can't really see the flame, but the flame spreader certainly shows that the stove is lit!

    The Monitor instructions are for the C11 (this stove) and it's sister stove the C15, exactly the same but fitted with a silent burner.

    These stoves are 'collapsible' "2 pint" domestic stoves and according to the adverts, are suitable for the 'motorists' amongst others. This stove features a bevelled burner washer seating (pictured) and was supplied with a single lead washer below the spirit cup. As the burner unit is tightened down, I believe that the idea is that the lead washer is not only 'squashed' between upstand and spirit cup, but is also 'squashed' up against the burner screw threads. The M. o D. arrow head can be seen with the numbers '11' and '56', so either it was made in November 1956, or supplied to the M. o D. that month/year.

    The filler cap incorporates the Monitor safety valve to prevent over-pumping or excessive air pressure in the fount. The burner unit features no obvious markings. These stoves are supplied with what Monitor call a 'parking plug' which is the hexagonal screw cap that fits onto the upstand when the burner unit is removed. Unlike other stoves, there is nowhere to store the plug on the stove itself when the burner is in place. The plug is also fitted with a single lead washer, but it only seals onto the outer lip of the washer seat and does not get squashed into the washer seat / burner thread like the other one does. Incidentally, in some of the photo's, it looks a bit wonky on the upstand, but that is only because it is resting there, not because it is cross threaded!

    Finally, for some reason or other, I received 4 legs instead of three, together with 2 Primus prickers. There seems to be an abundance of '1956' Monitor C11's 'new old stock' kicking around at the moment, so grab one while you can, they're really great stoves!
     
  2. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Hi, great photos and commentary.
    Regarding the primary source of a very large number of these 1950s monitor stoves look at my comments in this thread:

    http://classiccampstoves.com/threads/monitor-c15-1953.24008/#post-309402

    These Monitors are very good Quality stoves, although with the presence of the upstand in the collapsed state, the difficulty of sealing the reserve plug, and lack of parking place for the said plug, I would class them as demountable rather than fully collapsible

    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
  3. Funfundfunfzig

    Funfundfunfzig Australia Subscriber

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    Another great post Baz! Must be a thrill to have such a pristine unit in your arsenal. Firing up a classic mint condition stove for the first time would be very cool!

    If you don't like the way that new stove burns you could spray a bit of WD40 on the burner to get that yellow sooty effect! @JonD ;)

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  4. Go Scout

    Go Scout United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Something doesn't seem quite right?

    20160514_213655.jpg 20160514_213728.jpg 20160514_214002.jpg 20160514_214008.jpg
    It's as if too much of the flame is hitting the vertical part of the flame ring, making for smaller 'petals' and a big fire ball underneath. Study the orange patches and look carefully for traces of blue underneath the bottom of the flame ring. If the flame hit the angled part, it would go upwards and outwards, but it doesn't. Instead, it seems to hit the vertical part, sending some more vertically, some downwards and the rest as a big fireball in the middle. I will have to try a different flame ring next time to see if it's any better. Might have to trim a mm off the bottom of the ring to lower the angled part.

    Trust the above makes sense?

    Baz
     
  5. Funfundfunfzig

    Funfundfunfzig Australia Subscriber

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    I have no idea what the problem as I don't own a stove with a roarer burner (yet!) but it looks spectacular!
     
  6. The Bird

    The Bird New Zealand Subscriber

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    @Go Scout,

    Perhaps the Flame Ring is sitting a bit high? Do you have another used one that sits a bit lower, it may allow the flame to spread out more.

    Just thinkin'.....

    Best regards,

    Mike.
     
  7. JonD

    JonD United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Yes I reckon it's the wrong flame ring.
    On all my roarers the top of the outer lip is at the same height as the base of the burner top plate.

    Your flame has nowhere to go except impinge on the vertical wall of the ring.
    It should sweep out at 45 degrees (more or less) through the gap between plate and lip.

    If you have flame ring of that diameter about 4mm shorter I think you will see great improvement.
    Otherwise are you brave enough to take a hacksaw to it??
    WD40 colour light show try later @Funfundfunfzig !
     
  8. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I agree with Jon and Mike.

    Great purchase but in their hurry to rush them out of the warehouse someone's shoved the wrong flame ring in with the bundle, maybe. The gap between burner top and ring is too narrow and constricts the outlet for the flames.

    The flared bit of the flame ring should be lower down (quick fix to cut a bit off the bottom as Jon's suggested) to open up the 'exit' for the fiery blast.

    John
     
  9. tofta

    tofta Norway Subscriber

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    @Go Scout
    Having a quick look at a couple of stoves a Radius No 21 with Radius marked flame ring and a Høvik Verk Standard No 41 with unmarked ring, the top of the flame ring sits slightly below the top of the burner.

    DSC_0459.JPG DSC_0456.JPG DSC_0454.JPG

    All the best, e

    PS. And all the best for May 17th. HippHippHurrraaaa……
     
  10. Murph

    Murph United States Subscriber

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    Given that these are made for military use, the direction of the flame as such may be by design! A spread out flame would produce more illumination at night, drawing fire, whereas with the burner as is, the flame and heat are far more focused.

    If you also check, you'll find these stoves were fitted with a "oversized" burner, so the issue of flame spreading is not an issue.

    http://classiccampstoves.com/threads/1956-monitor-c11-mod-stove.17924/

    FWIW, My C11 MoD stove has the same flame pattern, and goes like the blazes, and mine was NIB when it hit my doorstep.

    Murph
     
  11. Go Scout

    Go Scout United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Her new mini-skirt has certainly sent temperatures rising!

    I put a dremel cutting disc into my pillar drill. Resting the flame ring upside down, flat on the pillar drills' work table, I was able to adjust the height of the table in order to perfectly slice off 2mm of the 'skirt'. This was done by sliding the 'skirt' up to the disc and slowly rotating it with the cutting disc running, creating a 'groove' all the way around first, and then by slicing through. After tests, I sliced off a further 1mm using the same method as above.

    20160520_162202.jpg

    Previously, although I failed to mention it, she was difficult to light and would only run at full tilt, even then, unreliably.

    Here's a reminder - the 'before' photo's of her running at full tilt (no simmer flame shots, as she kept going out). . .

    20160514_214002.jpg 20160514_213728.jpg

    . . . and now featuring a modified, shorter 'mini' skirt (first at full tilt, then at a medium setting). . .

    20160520_161512.jpg 20160520_161548.jpg

    . . . a reliable burn can also be achieved with an even smaller flame, but the picture came out blurred (I blame the idiot camera man myself!). The flame now hits the bevelled edge of the flame ring, directing it upwards and outwards to spread out nicely on the bottom of the kettle, shielded of course, by a handy wind shield borrowed from the box I've just completed for my Monitor 15.

    20160520_161346.jpg

    Time for a coffee me thinks, whilst I contemplate today's successes!

    Baz
     
  12. Funfundfunfzig

    Funfundfunfzig Australia Subscriber

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    Great work detuning your burner!

    I had another easier way to solve this problem but I was too late getting it to you!

    Sorry about that Baz!
    image.jpeg
     
  13. Go Scout

    Go Scout United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Hi Steve,

    That's about right!

    You've gotta get yourself a roarer stove to experience the delights first hand!

    Baz
     
  14. Funfundfunfzig

    Funfundfunfzig Australia Subscriber

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    @Go Scout

    Hey Baz!

    I hadn't counted my two 8Rs which of course are roarers! Maybe because they're only little!

    But I now have a Radius with a proper roarer burner! Yipee! It appears to be missing the flame ring altogether. I'll have to source one and do some trials. It's an oldie but seems solid enough! Can't wait to make some noise!

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  15. Go Scout

    Go Scout United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Demountable or collapsible- this is the question!

    These are extracted from the 1937 Campedia Catalogue

    "All Monitor Stoves in this range are provided with a centre plug which seals the container when the burner is removed for packing and enables the oil to be carried without fear of spilling. When the stove is in use the centre plug is carried in the filling cup and the burner inserted in its place. This little device obviates the necessity of carrying a separate fuel container."

    Not sure what the 'filling cup' is, but it seems that back in 1937, these stoves were treated as a kind of 'large picnic' stove.

    Baz
     
  16. Wim

    Wim Belgium Subscriber

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    Filling cup: the cap you remove to fill'er up?:-k

    Best regards,

    Wim
     
  17. Go Scout

    Go Scout United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Hmmm - not convinced it's the filler cap as that has one of those safety valves in it and I can't see how the plug would fit it. I wonder if there was a separate 'cup' for filling the stove with the correct amount of paraffin, rather like the plastic cups these days that come with a modern electric domestic iron.

    Maybe you were supposed to pop it into your coffee cup so that when you finished your drink, you'd remember to replace the plug in the stove! :lol: (or choke on it!)

    Baz
     
  18. Funfundfunfzig

    Funfundfunfzig Australia Subscriber

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    ROFL!!!! Thanks for that last line Baz!

    My daughter is already convinced she can taste kerosene in her tea! I'd give her the "special" cup of tea with the cap in it!
     

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