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MSR Arctic Fuel Pump

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by HunterStovie, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. snwcmpr United States

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    @hikerduane
    Did you get low temp orings from them? Which ones?
     
  2. itchy United States

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    Nice looking kit; good work by MSR to put one together -- thank you for showing it. @haknuts
     
  3. hikerduane

    hikerduane United States Subscriber

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    @snwcmpr, dug out the packing slip, received some of Buna-N and Viton.

    4mm--Buna-N 70
    4mm--Viton V75
    5mm--V75 Viton
    6mm--V75 Viton
    I think the numbers are the durometer rating. I think to make sure I had a size that would work. Have more issue getting the hose attached to the stove than anything else. I did get another tiny coupler, but trying to keep things original as long as I can.
    Duane
     
  4. snwcmpr United States

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    So, nothing for low temperature?
     
  5. hikerduane

    hikerduane United States Subscriber

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    The lower durometer is softer I believe. Guess there isn't much difference, but enough to make a difference in low temps.
    Duane
     
  6. ArchMc

    ArchMc United States Subscriber

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    If I take this too seriously, it means that on a trip where I start low (above freezing) and climb high (below freezing) I might need two pumps (or two sets of o-rings). This seems a hassle, considering I haven't had any real problems with the "regular" pump when it was well below freezing.

    The problems I have had are with the o-ring where the fuel tube from the stove is inserted into the pump. The tube has to be lubricated every time. Pushing a very cold piece of metal through is not what o-rings were designed to handle and causes this part to wear pretty rapidly. I have replaced this o-ring more than all other soft parts in the pump combined. Are the "below freezing" o-rings more resistant to friction?

    Also, because of this and also just because plastic pumps give me nightmares (admittedly without a personal reason), I take an extra pump screwed into the second fuel bottle on any longer trip. Sometimes the second bottle is a small one. (MSR pumps are light enough that weight is not a real issue.) I guess I could take one of the blue pumps as my second pump, but this could present the problem of having an unsuitable pump once I descend back to a warmer clime. (Assuming failure of my "warm weather" pump.)

    Without knowing what failure modes drove this new product development, I don't know what to think about it. If it comes to it, none of the o-rings are difficult to replace in the field. That, after all, is the purpose of the MSR pump design.

    ....Arch
     
  7. snwcmpr United States

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  8. hikerduane

    hikerduane United States Subscriber

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    I've never worried about pump failure. Last winter I had used a old yellow pump I had recently replaced O-rings in and it leaked. I had not lubricated the fuel line before inserting into the pump, there was much resistance, but I forced it in. I usually have a second stove now since I have so many stoves, so resorted to the second stove. When I got home, I could see I had torn the O-ring, allowing it to leak slightly there. So always lube the fuel line end, hard to do when it was that cold. Wish I knew the correct sizes for all the O-rings instead of trying to match them with ones out of an assorted selection from Harbor Freight.
    Duane
     
  9. snwcmpr United States

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    I always 'spit' on the tube before inserting into the pump.
     
  10. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark United States Subscriber

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    Morning, All,

    I agree with Mac, and have never had a problem with using MSR pumps in the below freezing weather. I lube the fuel tube with spit, mostly, or my tin of lip balm, which is always in my pocket. My worst failure of an MSR pump was with one of the "bad versions", the early red and black one. It cracked on me, and the conflagration was immediate, and VERY scary!! Thank God I had a huge bucket nearby, which I up-ended over the flames, and snuffed them out! Sadly, there are a few of those "bad version" pumps that have been designed and offered over the years, and I still see them on eBay, very regularly.

    If you stick with the current pump, and do what you should always do, i.e. lubricating the fuel tube before inserting it into the pump, I think all should go well. As for MSR making their pumps out of metal, I've discussed that with them, and that is not their design goal. And, if you think about it, we've all read about Stovies having problems with metal pumps from other companies, now and then, and that convinced me that NO pump is infallible, and ALL pumps "can" fail if not used properly, or not serviced regularly. I think that MSR's current pump is very, very good, and that other pump designs that they have offered in the past have been fairly good, too, including some of the yellow ones. But, there are a few that should never have been sold, IMHO. Others may have different mileage, but I like MSR pumps, and trust them. Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  11. shagratork

    shagratork United Kingdom Moderator Subscriber

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    When I first read the advert for the MSR Arctic pump my thoughts were what happens if you use the Arctic Pump in temperatures above freezing?
    Does it fail for some reason? If so, why?
     
  12. itchy United States

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    The Challenger disaster back in '86 was due to an o-ring failure due to cold on a cold day in Florida. Not making light of it, just pointing it out.
     
  13. shagratork

    shagratork United Kingdom Moderator Subscriber

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    @itchy I am not sure if your post was a reply to my post.
    My question is why can't the Arctic Pump be used at all temperatures?
     
  14. haknuts

    haknuts Norway Subscriber

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    @shagratork In a brief on the artic exp kit, it says that the std red seals is usable down to -20C. No lower temp limit mentioned on the blue. The blue gets very soft in + temp and so they wear faster and I think also there could be issues with the bottlecap - may twist off.

    This stove were thoroughly tested before the procurement, and I would expect to find a polar trial/evaluation report that (probably) led to the evolment of this kit. If so I will give an update. Anw - the artic pumpkit is primarely for use in temperatures were most people really would like to stay home by the fireplace...
     
  15. ArchMc

    ArchMc United States Subscriber

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    Trevor, I think your question is a good one, and I suspect haknuts is correct about the answer. It would be good to know MSR's rationale on this.

    Ken and Mark, I also generally spit on the end of the fuel line before inserting it, because that's what's handy. However, if you let the stove cool for too long after you've shut it off, there's a chance of your spit freezing and really savaging the o-ring when you pull it out. I try to keep a tube of silicon grease at hand, but that adds another fiddly task to starting the stove. Using chapstick is a good idea.

    The metal pumps can fail -- many because they have plastic parts. I think one of the strengths of the MSR system is that spare pumps are readily available, relatively inexpensive, and light weight enough that putting one in every fuel bottle you take is a reasonable thing to do. It also eliminates moving the pump between fuel bottles, which can be a dicey thing with mittens on.

    ....Arch
     
  16. snwcmpr United States

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    Very good point.
    Would the fuel flowing past dissolve the spit?

    (Poor memory alert)
    @Doc Mark wasn't there a reason MSR made them plastic because the 'possible flame from a leak' melted the plastic reducing the 'explosion' factor?

    Ken in NC
     
  17. hikerduane

    hikerduane United States Subscriber

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    I think that was the reason Ken.
    Duane
     
  18. ArchMc

    ArchMc United States Subscriber

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    Well... If that's really the reason, I'd rather have an SRV than either an explosion or a pump meltdown/fireball.

    @snwcmpr I don't know if the fuel can wash away the spit under the o-ring, but I do know that particular o-ring wears out often.

    ....Arch
     
  19. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark United States Subscriber

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    Greetings, Guys

    Yes, that's one of the major reasons for MSR sticking with phenolic pumps, and not going to metal. They would prefer a fire, rather than an explosion. Works for me, anyway. No muss, no fuss, no problems. And, as Mac so rightly said, MSR pumps are so light, you can take two pumps, if needed. Take care, & God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  20. Maciej Switzerland

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    Hello everybody,

    This Arctic Pump seems to be an extremely good idea. I have had a lot of trouble with my MSR XGK EX
    because of the pump. I do expeditions to various Siberian mountain ranges and taiga, also in winter,
    and it can get really cold at that time. Not that long ago I was in taiga in Yakutia (Chersky Mountains),
    it was -55 C (-67 F). I had 3 MSR pumps with me and two just broke down; the main problem was this
    rubber part that is attached to the tip of the removable plastic element that one uses to pump the air
    inside. This thing got deformed because of the cold to such an extent that it just went off the plastic part
    and could not be reattached. The third pump worked. My guess is that, under such conditions, *any*, (even
    the tiniest, of any kind) wear and tear, one that one would not notice in higher temperatures at all, will
    make the pump unusable. I'm still wondering how this pump would behave in some *truly* extreme
    conditions (it can get even below -70 C (-94 F) in these regions).

    Let's see if I can get these blue o-rings. I hope that MSR uses the blue material for *all* the rubber
    parts, not just the o-rings and the large ring outside...

    Best
     

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