Silent burners: were they responsible for the death of liquid fuel stoves?

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by Colin Geer, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. Colin Geer

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    It's something I've been mulling over for the last couple of days.

    I'm not a fan of silent burners although I appreciate the look of them and the technical excellence of all those tiny blue flames, but I think they made the demise of 'proper' stoves that much easier. To me, they look pretty much like gas burners so given the slightly increased levels of hassle involved in running a liquid fuel silent burner, why wouldn't you simply opt for the simplicity of a gas powered device? OK, they're not as hot and you have to get rid of the empty canisters but Joe Public doesn't seem to care!

    No, for me, roarers have always been my passion: the noise, the flame, the power and the excitement - I love 'em to bits!
     
  2. Hazet

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    "I'm not a fan of silent burners...."

    Doesn't your avatar have a silent burner stove in it?
    :whistle:
     
  3. Marc

    Marc Subscriber

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    I think you're selling out of your own pocket on this one. Stovies make up almost zero of the stove buying public. Such a small percentage that in a marketing survey, we don't exist. What we consider "soul" and "character" and "charm", non stovies just consider a pain in the ass.

    John and Jane Q public don't know or care about silent or roarer burners. A campstove is a campstove is a campstove.

    Their options are:

    1.)The liquid fuel stove. You have to muck about with an expensive fuel that you will never use for anything else, store it for the next three years until you go camping again, there's pouring and pumping and coaxing involved and if you flip the lever over too soon you get a big fireball!

    OR

    2. The propane stove. Click light cooking, works just like your stove at home. Can even be used with your BBQ cylinder. Oh, and it's CHEAPER.

    Sold.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  4. Ed Winskill

    Ed Winskill United States Subscriber

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    American suitcase stoves (the overwhelming majority of North American camp stoves) have always been silent burner stoves. I don't think the hypothesis can be sustained.
     
  5. monkeyboy

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    i dig what you are saying. i've always thought the silent burners look just like the gas burners on my families gas stove from the 60's.
    yeah, without the roar you have nothing but convenience which translates into 'the lowest common denominator' or something simple to operate and so on.....
    i don't know why the great old stuff is not being made anymore like the original 8R or 111's. i've thought about it a lot. why can't the stove makers revive class.
    VW is re-introducing a VW Bus, but hey, it ain't the same thing as the old Micro Bus.

    buzz
     
  6. Colin Geer

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    Yes, and I changed it to a roarer burner as soon as I could! It now has an 8R burner with some modifications to get the fuel air mix correct. It's much better than the original now! Ha ha!

    (I documented the alterations I made on here somewhere but I never remember how to link to past threads!)
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  7. Colin Geer

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    Thing is, the boat has already sailed, both on roarers and silent kero/white gas stoves. Coleman is (almost) the last gasp and a very nice stove they make too - I've got a modern Sportster 533. You can buy Chinese roarers like the BRS brand and their copies - I've got one of those too and it's pretty good fun but the old names have mostly gone by the way. The glory days are over in my opinion probably never to return, particularly when petroleum products get too rare and expensive to use.

    Listen, it was only an observation and a little tongue-in-cheek really but for me, a stove either roars or whimpers and I know which one I like to hear out on the hills!
     
  8. Colin Geer

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    You are absolutely right and I find it pretty sad... BUT at least I can still talk with you guys about 'proper' stoves plus I've passed the 'stove bug' on to both my sons!!!
     
  9. Tron

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    What "death of liquid fuel stoves"? I don't understand. To me it seems like we have a larger offering of liquid stoves in the market than we have had in a long time, at least if we narrow the scope down to backpacking stoves. Within a five minutes walk from the central railway station in Oslo, Norway, where I am headed on a train as I write this, I can buy at least eight different liquid fuel stoves, brand new over the counter. I will admit that seven of them are of the same variety, remote tank single burner stoves, but its still quite a variety, and almost all of them are very loud roarers! :-) Coleman still seems to produce both the 425 and the 413 size liquid fuel camp stoves, and the single burner 533. I find it surprising that there is such a huge demand still for these stoves.

    Tron
     
  10. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

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  11. igh371

    igh371 SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi Colin, I think, as others, that whatever the main causes of the demise of mass market portable liquid pressure stoves it could not be said to have been silent burners. Consider, for example, that Primus introduced the first silent burners in 1897, and in the USA home produced Primus No.1s were equipped with silent burners from the beginning!
    Ian:thumbup:
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  12. geeves

    geeves New Zealand Subscriber

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    Cost and availability of a stove that performs 95% of the required functions is why gas has won. Cheapest petrol stove I can buy today is $70NZ That is for a stove that doesnt have great write ups and I have to buy online. Cheapest in NZ shops about $200 and then only specialist hiking shops. Butane/propane stoves start at $25 and are available in every hardware shop in the country. And they just work. Ok they work like a Toyota which means they do everything but no character. In brand named stoves $200 buys a complete cooking set like Jetboil etc. Its what most people believe they want.
    I remember the first Gaz stoves. Hard core hikers would often say they were only good for preheating their 8R and certainly with pure butane they did not like the cold but Ive put a Gaz in a test against a 8R and it was not slower even without considering the priming of the 8R.
     
  13. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Do not bad talk toyota. :)
     
  14. Marc

    Marc Subscriber

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    I wish Honda or Toyota made home appliances. I enjoy my classic stoves and such, but when it comes to washing clothes or keeping my food cold, I want exactly zero soul or character, I want boring inexpensive-to-run reliability.

    This is the category most camp stove purchasers fall into, as well.
     
  15. Colin Geer

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    OK OK, I give in!

    My assessment was maybe, possibly, probably erroneous...... I still can't stand gas stoves though! Anyway, being completely honest I'd still collect a silent burner liquid fuel stove plus which I have a beautiful Optimus 1S that I used throughout most of yesterday to boil a dead baby porpoise skull for my daughter - don't ask, it's along story!
     
  16. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Speed Queen non electronic washing machine. Not cheap, but reliable. Excellent warranty. Not made to be disposable.
     
  17. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Colin Geer

    The skull is right up my alley! I used to do that kind of thing for my work (a few decades ago).

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  18. Simes

    Simes R.I.P.

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    @Colin Geer I hope you refined the oil afterwards for her nightlight.

    Toyota HiLux make great weapons platforms (apparently).

    Had a Toyota for many years, sadly an engine rebuild was done by someone who's everyday was a Friday. :rage: Sadly I couldn't find a sensibly affordable replacement block and needed transport so it had to go. :cry:
     
  19. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    Can be.

    Even the evaporative cooling afflicting butane-fuelled stoves can be resolved - inverted canister/Soto floating inlet valve/wick-fed fuelling of Hank Roberts stoves/TEGstove warming of the canister with warm air blown over it by the on-board fan.
     
  20. Colin Geer

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    So to explain a little... my 17yo daughter loves collecting skulls and where we live in the Scottish Highlands she's in luck because there are usually plenty around on the hills and beaches close to where we live. We went to Sandwood Bay - a truly amazing place. You have to drive to the middle of nowhere, park your car and then walk 4 miles over the hills past 5 or 6 small lochs until you reach one of the most spectacular beaches I know. Last time we found a dead Minke whale carcass rotting away on the sand but this time it was a baby porpoise in an advanced state of decomposition. Neither of us are squeamish so having hacked of it's head, we bagged it up as best we could in some carrier bags we found and she carried it all the way back to the car. The smell was just about bearable on the drive home but when we got back after the holiday I needed to boil it to help the flesh come away. It's now submerged and we'll wait a week and have a look to see how it's doing.

    Would anyone like to see it when it's clean?