Greetings, Does anyone have any experience or advice on the efficacy of mixing small amounts of gasoline with kerosene in an attempt to ease the ignition phase of typical pressurized kerosene stoves such as Primus 100? The idea being that a small amount of gasoline in the mix will more readily vaporize and emerge from the nipple as gas. I constantly struggle with streams of liquid kerosene emerging from the nipple during the lighting phase and bursting into an uncontorllable yellow ball of flame. Any response would be most appreciated.
It sounds like you are not pre heating the stove enough Jr with alcohol/meths. Try pre heating longer and pumping only a few strokes to start the burn process for 30 seconds to a minute, then fully pump the stove. All the best Rik
Mixing fuels like that can be, as my old trade school teacher used to say, "Non habit-forming." He used that little homile to illustrate activities that could end in mayhem or even death. Things like trying to pick offcuts out of a running tablesaw with one's fingers, or welding without goggles. I would not under any circumstances mix gasoline or Coleman fuel into kerosene. At least not until I had made certain of the caveats in my life insurance policy, and that my will was in order. It sounds as if you need a longer pre-heat and/or a new nipple. Gerry
As others observed, longer priming could improve the performance. There is another possibility, however, and that may require removing of your burner from the tank. This is a little more involved, and may need to have an extra heat prrof washer on hand, in order to complete the job. Usually, what can be done is: 1) after having removed the burner, soak it in vinegar for a few hours, and then rinse. Vinegar may remove all unwanted buildup inside the tubes; 2) you may need to blow torch the tubes, in order to burn off any carbon deposits lining the inner walls. You will be able to see the flame come out, if that is the case. Treat it until the tubes glow. Avoid hitting the jet area, for the heat could erode the solder that keeps the jet attached to the "U" tube.
JR, what stove are yoy planning this mix for? If you use a 111T, then use the Gasoline jet, and just use whitegas instead of keroseene. Parafin/keroseene is produced in different qualitys. Try another brand. I myself has bad experience with exon D-60. It will soot in any burner. Unfortantly our Army uses the exon Aviation fluid is perhaps the cleanest keroseene you can use.
Regardless of any bad chemicals, the flash points vary among jet fuels. Of note, one proposed approach was to blend aviation gasoline with kerosene to form Jet Mix, a product similar to JP-4. It probably didn't work as theorized or was too volatile because it was never used operationally. Before you go to jet fuel you might want to read http://www.airbp.com/airbp/public/generalinterest/jethistory.html[/url]. Not all jet fuels are the same. Jet-A and JP-8 are similar and are probably the most readily available. One problem with any jet fuel are the "other" ingredients. If you do a google search you'll find reports on the Toxicological Profile for Jet Fuels JP-5 and JP-8 found at http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/phs121.html and http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp121.html Sorta squashes my idea of getting cheap fuel. Although other reports such as http://www.rense.com/general3/chemedb.htm]Link dispute those findings, why take a chance on a couple gallons of fuel for your camp stove.
If we store kerosene and gasoline in the same room all of it will bee deemd as A-fluid and should be treated as it is gasoline. Some people mix gasoline into kerosene this will make the flashpoint considerably lower than for kero, and the heat from the burner may cause over-pressure in the tank. The reason for mixing this may be extreme cold conditions ( below minus 20 deg C), or for use inpetromax-lamps for making it dimable. I was told that this amount of gasoline not should exide 20%. I have not tested it. Try a complete preheating; No wind, absolutly full spirit cup and prima preheating alcohol or meths with no water. Do not let any kero come out of the jet before the preheating is almoust finished! Good luck, and think safety. Dag S
Are you pressurizing the tank before you preheat? You might want to not pressurize until the preheat is near finished and do not over-fill the tank. Once the spirit-cup is about finished burning, pressurize the tank and then light the burner. I would not mix gas into the kero, too many unknowns. I like that.
Hello everyone. This thread fits in with a thought I had the other day. would it be safe to change fuels in a 111t, by just pouring out Eg kero and then putting in meths or gasoline. Has anyone done this successfully? I have the restrictor tube required cheers Jim
It may be wrong, but I would let it run until it stops, and just fill up with the right fuel for the jet I put in. some kero in the gas with the gas jet will probably work perfect. The kero-jet has a slightly wider hole, and would be a little bit to hot with at full throtle. On the other hand this stove is so wise and robust made so I would not take it seriously. Any other stove than 111 T, 111C, 11Ranger and Nova I would not mix it. Why? Theese stoves are extremely robust, and the 3 last mesioned burner are designed for both gasoline, and kerosene with the same Jet. The 111 roarer and the 111T shold prefere special jet for gas (burns kero with gas jet, but not suited for gas in kero jet). I have friends done some field testing, and pure gas in a roarer worked fine for 1/2 hour, then the hard solder of burner started leaking gas. DSK
Hi DSK Thanks for the words of warning. I guess Il stick to kero for now as i have the 2509 jet. not terribly keen on using gasoline due to the risk from dense vapours, but useful to know it can be used with this jet with caution in an emenrgency Cheers Jim
I've been told by turning down the output, its safe to use gas. I demands guite a good feeling of whats to much, I belive. DSK
I've done it. But I don't use more than 10% Coleman fuel. We discussed it on the board long ago, and while on general principles it shouldn't be recommended, this works well for cold-weather use particularly. Boys being boys, users of a mix are tempted to go higher, just to try it. So I disclaim any recommendation. But it works, and in my experience a small amount does not allow for ignition with a match of liquid fuel. Do your own experiments....don't rely on mine!
I've experimented with MSR Dragonfly, with these: (1) 10% Pure Grain Alcohol, 90% kerosene, DK jet, still I cannot ignite the fuel, I have to prime it additional spill of alcohol. (2) 15% Absolute Ethanol, 85% kerosene, DK jet, still cannot ignite the fuel directly with just a lighter, and the flame is shown to be unstable, I mean, it can sometimes drop down and sometimes back to normal. (3) 20% Methanol, 80% kerosene, DK jet, still cannot ignite the fuel by lighter only, have to prime it with an additional spill of alcohol. Preheated quickly than (1) and (2), but the flame will go off by itself if the stove is hot enough. (4) I add 70 ml of white gas mixed with 140 ml of kerosene, DK jet, still cannot ignite the fuel by only lighter, I have to preheat it with another spill of white gas or alcohol or tissue as tinder. The heat was slightly lower than pure kerosene. My conclusion: we cannot ignite the kerosene directly with only a lighter. Mixing white gas with kerosene would just remove the fuel quality of white gas. Mixing it with alcohol is wasteful. I would stick to alcohol gel as the best preheater and kerosene as the cheapest option. Butane is the cleanest fuel I know. Alcohol often burns fume and soothe that hurting my eyes.
On the Dragonfly (as indeed on any MSR stove) the actual concern with alcohol in the fuel would be alcohol permeating the seals. In a multifuel capable device there is little concern with mixing heavier and lighter hydrocarbons. Given the Dragonfly can burn gasoline or kerosene, it can safely burn the mixture. Pure gasoline can be safely burned using the DK jet. But priming is required, and always will be. The only exceptions are stoves designed to ignite the vapour of a fuel which has adequate vapour at the ambient temperature. In practice this means a pure gasoline-type/ light naphtha liquid. Only a few stoves will have this vapour initial feed: Coleman white gas equipment and the Soto Muka come to mind. The MSR stoves are not in this group. They all require priming, even the Whisperlite built for white gas.
Preheat. I have no need to mix gas in, even in single digit F temps. I bring along a little denatured alcohol. Duane
This is a thread from the dead this one! I haven't found the need for a mix with stoves, but I do use it in certain older marginal-performance lanterns, it does give a noticeable improvement. My so-called "Amish Mix" with very little basis for the term is 4:1 Kero/Naptha. Alec.
I don’t do this, it’s not recommended. The only use for this where diesel and petrol are mixed is in a drip torch for fire work, where 25% petrol is mixed with diesel. There may be others but certainly not stoves or lanterns. Cheers Rob
Ah yes, a mix of 25% petrol in diesel... the farmer's bonfire starter! 50% if you want more excitement for the grandkids - my father in law is unfortunately inclined to that sort of thing. Don't try this at home kids...
By "excitement" do you mean, explosive behaviour like firecrackers? I may not aware of the danger of mixing petrol and kerosene on stoves.
