Danger Petrol Stove

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by edz, Oct 20, 2010.

  1. edz

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    Having inherited a Primus 76 I tried to get some spares from BaseCamp. Unfortunately there are no spares. Here is the reply.


    Hello, thanks for the mail, unfortunately all main spares for this pre-War stove are obsolete. We may have a few of the washers and the pump non return valve but none of the important parts.
    As a pressurised petrol stove I would not recommend using this stove any more for safety's sake.
    Regards,


    My question is, are these stoves dangerous.

    I thought these stoves were made to last forever and made to be fool proof so as not to be dangerous.

    Could people put me straight and let me know the dangers and which parts should be in very good service to avoid me going up in a petrol fire bomb.

    Many thanks

    Ed
     
  2. yonadav

    yonadav Subscriber

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    Hello Ed,

    As I have never had a Primus 76, I cannot answer you directly regarding known risks that may be specific to this model.

    On a more general level, yes - every stove is dangerous, and petrol stoves are prone to more risks than kerosene stoves. You have to exercise sensible safety precautions when operating a stove, and you have to know what you are doing (and even more, what you should not be doing).

    Having said that (the general CYA stuff), this forum is the meeting place for those people who enjoy restoring ancient stoves and giving them new life. We gladly buy 100 year old stoves that spent their last 50 years in some pile of junk, we replace the soft parts that tend to decay with time, we polish the brass to a shine as if they just left the factory, we replace missing or broken parts, (and if we cannot get them, we make them), and then finally we gloat over the burning stove, preparing our favorite tea, coffee, or meal.

    Enjoy!

    Yonadav

    P.S. - I expect that those of us who own a 76 will be able give you specific directions regarding the parts that need attention. If after all you decide not to take the risk, I am sure you will find here many buyers for your stove (count me among them.)
     
  3. Spiritburner

    Spiritburner Admin SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi Edz,
    They certainly weren't foolproof or made to last forever even if the choice of material help towards a long life. Even when new this stove could be dangerous in the wrong hands.

    As it is it's not really feasible to tell you categorically what you need to do to ensure it's safe use.

    As a minimum you need to check tank integrity - sometime brass develops cracks - failure under pressure when full of petrol would not be pleasant. All seals & the nrv need to be in tip-top condition. Maybe pressurise the tank & test it in water to check for leaks in the form of air bubbles.

    Whatever you do proceed with caution & be ready for the worse if you get to a stage when you actually light it - ensure you follow the instructions - do it in a safe place & have the means to deal with any failure.

    If you have any doubts about it's safety or method of operation I would follow Bascamps advice.
     
  4. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    That's a fine description, Yonadev. It's certainly a precise 'fit' for what I do, including that satisfaction (gloating? - possibly!) in seeing the stove put right and doing something useful again.

    Spot on Ross.

    John
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2015
  5. -/-

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    If you feel in over your head, fettling this rare stove back to life then by all means ask for help.

    Several members including myself will do it for you (FOC) in order to bring back a very fine stove and in the same moment get you hooked on old stoves :content:
     
  6. yonadav

    yonadav Subscriber

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    Just one more thought. I started my fettling "career" with two kerosene stoves. (Actually one classic Primus No. 5 stove and one kerosene blowtorch.) Only after that I had sufficient confidence to try a petrol stove.

    Yonadav
     
  7. 111T

    111T Subscriber

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    They're probably just discouraging you from improvising parts on a gasoline pressure stove. It's not altogether bad advice. But it depends a lot on your particular copy. The safety advice you read above is good. And the help offered is valuable.

    Good luck on your quest!!!
     
  8. nzmike

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    Hi Ed, welcome aboard the Ship of Pyros. Are liquid stoves dangerous? Yup. So is your car and taking a shower. There was a case not long ago of 2 asian girls torching themselves with one of those cheapo suitcase butane burners Tescos carries for 10 quid. I knew a lady who died backing her car into a car park. Life is risk. That said, Primus (as was) were no fools, they build a damn good product to the very best of their considerable ability.

    If you want to restore your stove to working condition, all you have to do is follow the basic rules and precautions we all have to. There is a fearsome amount of good will and hard headed sense on this site, easily the best of it's kind on the Net, if you proceed with caution and prudence all will (most likely) be ok. It's a fascinating hobby......
     
  9. John Leah

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    I had to look this stove up in the archive as I wasn’t familiar with it and it’s certainly not the normal three-legged stove most people cut their fettling teeth on. That said it should be possible to get it working but there are hazards.

    The first thing to remember is all pressure stoves be they paraffin or petrol must have the seals, washers and joints in good order and the brass be free of defects. The difference between the fuels is that a leak in a paraffin stove will probably do little more than make a mess. An identical leak in a petrol stove could kill you.

    In the light of this I doubt many here would be prepared to give specific advice besides, few here will know the stove it’s that rare.

    I like all my stoves to be in working order so can quite understand that you’d want this one working but feel it’s not a suitable candidate for a first fettle. So, may I suggest that you either let someone here do it for you (there’s bound to be someone prepared to do it FOC and were it a ‘normal’ stove I’d offer myself) or build up experience with something more straightforward (and paraffin) like a Valor or Burmos stove.

    Whichever path you choose there’s a wealth of experience and good natured advice on this forum so you should not feel you’re alone.

    Good luck.

    Cheers,
    John
     
  10. Knight84

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    Hello Ed,

    I am very sorry for not giving you caution about this type of stoves in the other post. Yes petrol/gasoline stoves can be dangerous. Most Coleman stoves and lanterns are designed to run only petrol and do it oin a safer manner than the Swedish stoves of the time. The seals and non return valve in the tank must be in good order.

    Due to the nature of this stove with the fuel tank being outside the case and a fair distance from the burner I woundn't fear too much.
    But that is me. I face far greater dangers at work everyday.
    That said I would suggest you seek help. There are a lot of helpful gentlemen in England willing to help you. There are also annual events such as Newark in June I think that you can attend and find help.

    Best Regards,

    Jeff
     
  11. geeves

    geeves New Zealand Subscriber

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    Are these stoves a little brother to the 77?
    If so there isnt that much to go wrong.
    They have a self cleaning jet and a generator not unlike most multi burner colemans and a coleman style screw down check valve to prevent NRV leaks.
    Only problem Ive had with my 77 has been a tiny leak at the control knob which was fixed with a small adjustment with the attached spanner. They can bite though if used incorrectly. If you dont preheat enough fuel flows into the manifold and burns big and yellow and the only way to get it all out is let it burn out which can take a while and makes a huge black mess. Nice stove when running well and for me it was my third stove bought for collecting.
     
  12. Badger

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    Don't get frightened off this stove.
    The most important safety device is mounted between the ears, and you have already shown good sense by asking questions and gathering information. Take it steady, consider every way in which petrol can escape and eliminate it. Ask the helpful chaps here if you are unsure of anything. Light it for the first time outdoors.
    Then enjoy your rare and interesting stove :smile:
     
  13. rik_uk3

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    If its old and a little frail treat it with respect but light it outdoors out of harms way so to speak.
     
  14. Spiritburner

    Spiritburner Admin SotM Winner Subscriber

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    I'd advice treating any stove with respect regardless of age & condition.
     
  15. edz

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    Thank you all for your interest and balanced advice.

    To complete the story I would like to tell you what I have done.

    Being a little naive i boldly pushed on.

    I read the instructions about cleaning the vapourising tube. It was all jammed up solid so I needed to apply some heat, stupidly the chamber still had petrol in but I was convinced that emptying it can be more dangerous due to left over vapour so I just did it slowly and nothing went bang. I removed the inner vapourising bar, I needed a bit of force to move it and it shot out unexpectedly and I stabbed it into the ground. Luckily the cleaning needle straighted fine. I also slightly damaged the jet by rounding the spanner flats but this did not effect the apperture.

    There appeared to be a washer on the control knob which was a soft thing that was a little crumbly on the surface but seemed ok otherwise.

    I cleared the non return valve by pushing through some petrol with the plunger, put some vaseline on the plunger cup and all worked ok.

    The only thing I have realised I failed to check was the pressure release valve. Is this a setting or can I just take it apart and reassemble cleanly and check it works somehow.

    I also put a red washer on the filler cap.

    I fired it up and it ran really well but I am still unsure if there are any other dangerous bits to be checked.

    Should I fill the petrol chamber with water and do a pressure test?

    Should I dismantle all the threaded joints and reassemble. Do you use PTFE?

    Any way it would be a tremendous shame not to continue using this stove as it is so good already at what it does. I think it it great.

    Again thank you all for your interesting guidance and if any more input can be given I would greatly appreciate it.

    Thanks

    Ed
     
  16. John Leah

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    Hi Ed,

    Congratulations on the progress you've made so far :clap:

    I hope you appreciate the reservations we expressed were purely down to erring on the side of caution as giving advice to someone on unknown abilities on the other end of a keyboard could have dire consequences for both parties. However, it's clear you know what you're doing so initial fears were unfounded.

    Others will be better placed than I regarding advice on jointing materials so wait for them to come along.

    All I would question is fuel: you're not really using petrol are you? Modern 'petrol' is a chemical soup vastly different from that of old (and past use of it could be the reason your stove was clogged-up) so a 'petrol' stove nowadays needs a cleaner fuel. 'Coleman Fuel' is often recommended but here in the UK we have access to 'Aspen 4T' designed for garden machinery where the operator is in close proximity to the exhaust. Buy it from your nearest garden machinery dealer.

    Good luck with the rest of the fettle and let’s see some photos of the work progressing :lol:

    Cheers,
    John
     
  17. davidcolter

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    It sounds like you have done well so far!

    Anything that was once soft is now dead, it will need to be replaced. Dont skimp on this or you will be let down. Leather pump cups can be had from Sefaudi here or via eBay. For replacement seals, I'd say Viton rubber, because I have some. If you can give exact measurements of the bits you need to replace, things can happen.

    The brass... well have a good look and if you dont see any cracks, its probably fine.

    A tankful of pressure and a dunk in a bucket of water answers many questions.

    Its a fantastic item and if it can at all be restored to use then it should be.
     
  18. Murph

    Murph United States Subscriber

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    A word of warning, do NOT use PTFE, AKA Teflon on connections on a camp stove. :shock:

    This compound will decompose under the heat generated to produce some rather nasty fumes with the distinct ability to take you from this mortal toil permanently! :-&

    Murph
     
  19. Spiritburner

    Spiritburner Admin SotM Winner Subscriber

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    I 2nd that advice on the ptfe tape. You should only need any sort of suitable sealing compound if the threads are damaged.

    I've had a 2nd generation 77, the double burner version & it didn't have a safety release valve.

    I'd be wary of the red washer on the filler cap of a petrol if it's one of those fibre washers. Viton would be the way to go - or nitrile, if you can get decent quality.

    There shouldn't be a washer on the control knob.
    - is this the main control knob that sits at the front of the case when assembled - or if it's the later version is it the lever on the top of tank, part of the ignition device?

    Picture may help.
     
  20. edz

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    Ok I'm going to get some pictures together and show you all what I am doing!

    Thanks for all the help so far