Coleman check valve cutaway

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by Knight84, Jun 26, 2011.

  1. Knight84

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    Greetings stovies,

    I had a damaged/striped check valve from a Coleman 530 stove.

    I thought I would put it to some use and maybe help others understand Coleman check valves in their stoves and lanterns. Though not all check valves are the same nor do all Coleman's have check valves they all work the same.

    1254710670-IMG_2128_opt.jpg

    1309064695-1.jpg 1309064701-2.jpg
    1309064734-3.jpg 1309064744-4.jpg 1309064756-5.jpg


    Pictured above. You can see the check valve ball is held in place and only allowed to move up and down very little.

    1309064769-6.jpg

    1309064777-7.jpg


    Above you can see the air channel cut into the air stem that allows air from pumping to pass by the screw to the check valve.

    Below is the pump air stem turned clockwise and closed. No air will enter or leave the tank. The check valve will be held by pressure inside the tank.
    1309064785-8.jpg

    Below is the pump air stem turned counter clockwise a few turns. Air is able to pass by the air channel and screw. Pressure made by pumping action will force the check valve down and allow air into the tank. When the pump stroke is at the bottom the pressure from the tank forces the ball up and creates a seal. This allows the user to pull up on the pump and put another pump into the tank. It buys time between pumps.

    1309064791-9.jpg

    The ball is held captive by three stamped tabs see below

    1254710680-IMG_2149_opt.jpg



    I hope this helps someone. I plan on taking better pictures in the future. My iphone does an okay job though

    Cheers,
    Jeff
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2015
  2. mr optimus

    mr optimus United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Hi Jeff a brilliant documeted cutaway of the check valve we can all see how exactly how it works and how well and reliable the coleman check valves are making them a very safe stove/lantern to use many thanks for shareing a very usefull piece of information
     
  3. yonadav

    yonadav Subscriber

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    In classical terms, check valve ball = NRV.

    Another aspect to note is that the valve can be screwed into the closed position, in which no air can pass from the pump into the tank. Therefore, Coleman had to add the vent hole through the pump rod. This allows air to escape when you to push the pump rod in after the valve is closed.

    Yonadav
     
  4. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi John, Great Master-class.
    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
  5. Blacksmith1964

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    Great post Jeff!
    It's one thing to have it described to you, but, as they say, a picture (or more) is worth a thousand words.
    Thanks!
     
  6. Knight84

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    Very true Yonadav.

    A check valve is a non return valve. But in Coleman's case it is a type of check valve called a ball check valve. No spring or rubber needed. In my opinion light years ahead of what is normally thought of as a non return valve.

    Good point! The hole in the pump knob has to be there to allow air to escape after pumping. And of course not escape while pumping. In some cases I find this hole not necessary. Air escapes fine by itself. It is necessary while pumping but only because there is a hole.


    1309099968-10.jpg 1309099976-11.jpg 1309099983-12.jpg


    As you can see above the pump is hollow to allow the air stem to slide in and out during pumping.

    Note the stamped square on the pump shaft which allows one to turn the air stem counter-clockwise or clockwise.


    Another hidden part the the whole Coleman pump system is the fact that the check valve is not exposed to fuel. Past the check valve there is a chamber with a tube running up to the top of the tank. This means no fuel can get back to the check valve. *As long as the stove is level*
    When you pump you are pumping air into the top of the tank where there is an air already. Not pushing air into fuel, like such stoves as the Optimus 111.

    I am working on that cutaway right now. Not as easy.

    Thanks everyone

    Cheers,
    Jeff
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2015
  7. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Morning, Jeff,

    Outstanding job, my Friend!! Very well done, and brilliantly presented!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :clap: :clap: :D :D

    Your fine cut-away also shows why, at least in the older Coleman appliances, one seldom has go remove the NRV. Instead, you just do as Flivver has always recommended, and soak the pump tube and fuel tank with lacquer thinner!! I've tried that several times, and after a few days, it has always worked like a champ! Just shake the stove, making sure you plug the pump tube with a cork first (!), every so often, and before you know it, VOILA, the stuck ball is cleaned and free, working as good as new!! Simple, safe, and perfect design, IMHO!! Well done, again, Jeff!! Thanks, very much, for your stellar efforts!! Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  8. Sparky

    Sparky Subscriber

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    Great job, Jeff! It really helps to know what is supposed to happen when everything is working correctly.
     
  9. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    Neat sectioning job, Jeff, very neat indeed.

    As Flivver's always maintained, if a check valve doesn't work (blocked), there's not a lot there that the right solvent (lacquer thinner) wouldn't put right.

    Of course, with the right removal tool, it makes it a lot easier to get it going again with the check valve out rather than in-situ.

    John
     
  10. RonPH

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    John, thanks for taking the time to explain the check ball on the coleman. Honestly, I have not done any maintenance on the NRV's of any of my coleman to this day (they all work) hence the design was always a mystery to me. It no longer is :thumbup: thanks to you :clap:

    Keep up the good work.

    Ron
     
  11. Rick b

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    Hi Jeff. Excellent turtorial. Thanks for taking the time to put this together, such a simple concept.
     
  12. kerry

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    well done jeff :clap: smashing :thumbup:
    a simple idea, that works perfect, just like the filler cap ;)
    keep up your good work :clap:
     
  13. BernieDawg Banned

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    Thank you Jeff! A great bit of education - very visual.

    I'd like to pose a question to anyone who may still be following this thread. Were retrofitting traditional rubber-pipped stoves with Coleman style check valves possible, in such a way that the outward appearance of the pump and stove remained unchanged, would such a conversion be:

    of interest? orrrrr........

    would it be an unholy bastardization of collector stoves?

    Just curious to see what the group viewpoint would be.

    Cheers,
    Gary
     
  14. RonPH

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    Hi Gary. For me if its a better improvemenNRV over the currently installed NRV of a stove or lantern with the provision that it will not alter the appearance of the pump drastically I am all for it.

    What are you up to????

    Ron
     
  15. Rick b

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    Interesting question Gary. Hummm maybe in my Solus?
     
  16. Knight84

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    Thank you Doc, Sparky, John, Ron, Rick, Kerry, and Gary.

    I am working at finishing the tank cutaway of a Coleman 530 with a rusted out tank. The check valve is from another 530. And I have a spare 530 valve around somewhere. So we will have a cutaway of what is happening inside a Coleman stove/lantern. I think it is neat and helps old and new guys understand.

    Cheers,
    Jeff
     
  17. Knight84

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    Excellent idea Gary. I have been working on such an idea for the Optimus 111. I should say 8 months ago I was working on it. We Canadian's are slow eh. The problem is to fit a Coleman style pump design into the 111 you need to shorten the pump due to the check valve and chamber being there. I had a working prototype but took it apart to improve. I want to braze the chamber on and don't have anymore wire so I moved on and forgot. ](*,)

    I think if you did this to a true classic like the Primus 1,4, or 41, ... you would be crossing that line a little. That's why I picked the Optimus 111. A user stove that would be safer with this Coleman pump design. Lots of spare tanks around if I wanted to switch back too.

    I should post these pictures in the fettling forum under subforum Frankies, Mods & Hybrids. But it is a working prototype and we love thread drifts here right?

    I wanted to keep the look the same and the pump tube the same. The 14mm bore of the Optimus 111 pump is a lot smaller than the standard Coleman pump. But I was able to use the Optimus 111 pump tube, knob, and pump lid.

    The next two pictures look like a Optimus 111 pump right?

    1309225925-100_2053_opt.jpg 1309225931-100_2054_opt.jpg

    The knob was threaded to take a Coleman pump shaft and allow for the air stem screw/positive lock. And a air hole drilled in the center of the knob. The only thing you will notice different when done.

    The Optimus pump leather was fitted and away we go.

    1309225938-100_2056_opt.jpg 1309225944-100_2058_opt.jpg

    I need to make a new chamber and air tube for this but I plan on making it work.

    Cheers,
    Jeff
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2015
  18. Rick b

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    Way to go Jeff! You are probably right, it might not be such a good idea to convert something like a Solus since they are like finding hens teeth.
     
  19. Knight84

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    Yeah I agree Rick.

    Some of the Solus stoves came with a check valve positive locking pump. Link

    Jeff
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2015
  20. Rick b

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    Jeff You have a beautiful stove. Was it just the Canadian models that had the locking pump? I think Matt has one also,just checked and his has the locking pump also. Not sure if Docs is that way or not.