I know I know, if I'd have looked closer at the photo, I'd have noticed something was wrong... Awfully wrong! But, I was distracted by the looks of the burner . Ah well, such is life Have a look at the photo's and see for yourself; Nice trivet, can you see now why I got distracted by the burner? Guess not yet... Yup, it's a regulated one, never seen a Phoebus brassie with a regulated burner! A close look at the knob shows the french directions for opening & closing. Anyone seen one of these before? I don't think the burner is original to the stove but so far I haven't found any markings on it. Do I need to say inner & outer cap were missing . Now, where's the bad news then? Have a look at these photo's; Nice engraving though, and nice feet too! Ah well, guess that's life ! Maybe I can find some good use for the burner... Best regards, Wim
That is a shame. Hellava impressive crack however. Hopefully something comes along and it all will be put to good use.
Wim, that is a tragedy! However, you probably hold the record for the biggest crack! No wait, that didn't come out right.....
I went to the website of the National Association of Corrosion Engineers (www.NACE.org) and pulled this info about brass corrosion: Brass Corrosion These alloys contain zinc as the principal alloying element with or without other designated alloying elements such as iron, aluminum, nickel and silicon. The wrought alloys comprise three main families of brasses. The cast alloys comprise five main families of brasses. Ingot for re-melting for the manufacture of castings may vary slightly from the ranges shown. In these alloys, zinc is added to copper in amounts ranging from about 5 to 45%. As a general rule, corrosion resistance decreases as zinc content increases. It is customary to distinguish between those alloys containing less than 15% zinc (better corrosion resistance), and those with higher amounts. The main problems with the higher zinc alloys are dezincification and stress corrosion cracking (SCC). In dezincification, a porous layer of zinc free material is formed locally or in layers on the surface. Dezincification in the high-zinc alloys can occur in a wide variety of acid, neutral and alkaline media. Dezincification can be avoided by maintaining the zinc content below about 15%, and minimized by adding 1% such as in Admiralty brass tin (MatSelect/corrtin.htm) and Naval brass (C46400). Adding less than 0.1% of arsenic, antimony or phosphorus gives further protection, provided the brass has the single a-phase structure. Again, a decrease in the zinc content to less than 15% is beneficial. Brasses containing less than 15% zinc can be used to handle many acid, alkaline and salt solutions, provided: 1. There is a minimum of aeration 2. Oxidizing materials, such as nitric acid and dichromates, and complexing agents, such as ammonia and cyanides, are absent 3. There are no elements or compounds that react directly with copper such as sulfur, hydrogen sulfide, mercury, silver salts, and acetylene. Stress corrosion cracking (SCC) SCC occurs readily in the high-zinc brasses in the presence of moisture and ammonia. This was first experienced (or at least identified) when the brass cartridge cases used by the British Army in India were found to suffer from cracking (the ammonia comes from the decay of organic material). Two explanations have been given for the name applied to it of ‘season cracking’; firstly that it occurred during the rainy season, and secondly that the cracks resembled the cracks in seasoned wood. It remains a problem, although the scale is probably reduced because of the substitution of plastics for many applications previously dominated by brass. The cracking is intergranular. Note the comment about aeration. Does that imply we should leave the filler cap off of empty tanks when stored?
In my experience, cracking is often induced by inexpert use of ammonia based polishing compounds. Much better relying on abrasive techniques for restoring a mirror like aspect then using aggressive chemicals. Orsoorso
Well, I've had stoves with cracked founts before, but never one that had them all around! Only where the feet are I can see no cracks. Took it in the garage for a closer look at things, and found out the spirit cup is most probably an early SVEA one, missing the "lip" that goes up to the burner. The small rivet to hold the lip is still there. After cleaning I hope to find a name somewhere on this burner. SVEA had a regulated one fairly early on, but the ones I found in the catalogs here on CCS have a detachable adjuster rod, mine has a rod that goes straight into the casting, so solid rod. The NRV came out easy, and looks like it is untouched. Pumpcup dry but not worn. So, I think I can better un-solder pumptube & legs etc., and discard the fount. Righto, I'll go back digging in the catalogs, look at the other Swedes hoping I can find a clue as to who made my burner! Best regards, Wim
Morning, Wim, It's really too bad about your Phoebus stove being cracked, and I share your pain, my friend! Years ago, I won a quite lovely Hipolito stove on the bay of evil, and could hardly believe my good fortunate!! However, when it arrived, it had the beginnings of stress cracks all around the font, as yours does!! Oh, well.... it's still a lovely specimen, and I am glad to have gotten it, especially for such a low price. I have an older Phoebus #2 brass kero stove, but mine is not nearly as lovely as yours, and my burner, though very similar in construction to yours, is not regulated. If you would like to see photos of mine, just as a comparison to yours, please let me know, and I'll post them here. Again, sorry your stove has a few warts. Great stove, nonetheless, and a good example of the quality Phoebus put into their stoves!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
It'd be a pity to discard the font, Wim. How does the size of the Phoebus fuel tank measure up to a Primus or Optimus No.5 - or Burmos two-pinter or such like? Contours of the tops of Phoebus/No.5 similar? An easy fix to retain the Phoebus markings would be to cut the top off the Phoebus's font, cut the burner and fuel filler risers out of it and use an epoxy resin to bond it to the top of a No.5 (I'm thinking of one that's not an old, rare example of course!). Hopefully, the Phoebus filler cap would fit the threads of a No.5? The No.5's pot legs could be de-soldered and those from the Phoebus font soldered on in place. I appreciate the idea might not appeal, but it's something to consider. John
Gave the burner a bath (in vinegar ) and a good clean. All I can find is an "O" or a"0" on the nut. No other markings. A search through the (Swedish) catalogs was also without succes, so I'll have to look at other nationalities... Unless someone recognises this one? John, the fount is a classic 2-pinter, much like the other N°5's and such. I'd have to find a fount without engraving on the sides, this one is also "blanco" (don't want to use the word "naked" 8-[ ) apart from what's on top. Your idea is certainly worth considering (have you tried this before? I had been thinking of soft-soldering some brass sheet all over the cracks, but my soldering skills are not very good), but for now I'm concentrating on the burner. It would be nice to mate it to a stove of the same provenance! Anyhow, thanks all for your thoughts/ideas & such! All is not lost, the stove didn't cost a fortune considering it came with the regulated burner (but it was more than I'd pay for a "normal" N°5). Thanks again, and I'd like to hear from someone who recognises the burner! All the best, Wim
Hi Wim I think John's right & i have a few old Primus tanks if youd like one , confuse the hell out of a stove historian though , i bet they'd think this would be a factory made hybrid if done well Even I couldn't repair that tank though , was the previous owner using rocket fuel in it Best regards , Stu
Hi Wim, what a terrible shame such a nice unique stove has the dreaded stress cracks. I have been lucky so far, as none of my collection of stoves blowlamps and lanterns, have stress cracks. I have only seen pictures of stoves and lanterns on here or on CPL with stress cracks, of all the pictures of members who's tanks have stress cracks, yours is the worse I have seen. Johns solution sounds like a great idea, or you could wait until another Phoebus NO 1 comes up that is sold for spares or repairs
Wim, I have a tank in the shed, without burner but with just the same feet you can have. Only, there's no engraving. So if you put the engraving on mine, you're set Just kidding, I do a search when I'm in the mancave and I send you a photo.
you could cut the top off the knackered sides and fit a cheap clock mechanism edit to add....bad luck my friend
Wim, I am sorry to see that this fount turned out to be such a lemmon. This is the one instance where it could be justified being converted into a table lamp.
Wim, all is not lost. It can be repaired but it will not have the appearance of new. If you'd like i'd be happy to give it a go. I'll pm my shipping addy if you want me to try. lance
Hi, I know there are some clever welders in this world & if one of them is prepared to give it a go, you haven't anything to lose, the problems which could arise are when the welds/silbrazes are polished out necessitating a more localised weld in the area of leakage. I really wish you luck on this one, the guy I use is very good, having done a lot of aluminium on various motorcycle components & a cast iron exhaust manifold off an old Fiat which broke in 4 pieces across the flange, he tells me that he can do brass although I haven't had any brass objects for him to try his skills on. If you do get it fixed, please post a picture for all of us to see. Best wishes=John. -------------------- If in doubt, brew up.
Hi gents, WOW! Been away for a couple hours and I get loads of replies to my post! This forum is great, don't you think? I have been doing some thinking myself, and there is something I might try; if I carefully cut off the top of the fount, leaving a few millimeters and then cut the top of another (good) fount I might be able to fit (solder) the Phoebus top to the "new" fount! What do you think? I'll have to be careful not to melt the bottom out of the "new" fount, and the pumptube and legs will also have to be re-soldered. Think I'll have to sleep a night over this... 8) All the best, Wim
I'd say there's not a lot of point cutting the top off the 'good' font and creating a lot of work, Wim, if you're intent on grafting it onto a sound fuel tank. Lance's offer's generous. I daresay he'd be putting his soldering skills to good use. John
convert to a electric table lamp? If the side has cracked like that there is no way of telling if similar damage is unseen in the top or burner
Personally I wouldn't trust any part of the tank. Cut the top off, mount it in a nice wooden frame, put a clock movement in the centre - the world's only Phoebus clock! Terry