Well OK then, we have a winner. Just curious. If one is willing to put one's self in harms way, why exactly would you expect it is someone elses job to risk their life to come rescue you when you screw up?
Let me rephrase so it does not sound so personal. If are willing to put ourself in harms way, why exactly do we expect it is someone elses job to risk their life to come rescue us when we screw up?
Morning, Itchy, and All, Well, after seeing the laundry list of all the goodies that some folks like to lug around, "just in case", and must agree with you 100%, Itchy!! For me, having THAT much of a "lifeline" is just too much contact with civilization!! Why not take along an emergency beacon, permanently turned on, so everyone can see exactly where you are at any given moment!!??!! Nah, way too much gear for me, and taking all that stuff would completely spoil my wilderness experience!! But, as I've written, if someone feels that they "need" all that gear, then by all means lug it along. I'd rather free myself from such trappings, and go to the wilderness prepared to fend for myself. If worse comes to worse, then I'll do everything possible to keep myself, and Sweet Bride, safe and healthy until we are rescued. But, in truth, we go to the wilderness with the thought that, "if something bad happens, and it's our time to go, so be it; at least we went to meet our Maker in His glorious wilderness, and not sitting in our living room, watching the boob tube"!! Hike your hike, and take whatever you feel is necessary, or whatever you want to take, along with you. But, remember, the most junk you carry, the more time it will take between your food drops, and the longer it takes between your food drops, the more food you will need to carry with you, etc., etc.. Call me old fashioned, if you wish, but that stuff is most certainly not ever going to be going into my pack, period!! I also wonder, IF someone feels they NEED all that stuff, then why go into the wilderness, at all? Why not just sit home, and watch someone ELSE go into the wilderness and camp, on TV??? Now, if I were going to climb K2, or explore the Arctic, or Anarctic regions of our planet, then of course, I'd plan to take along everything that might be considered necessary for emergency contact with the outside world. But, for a regular backpacking, canoeing, or snowshoeing trip? Nope, not gonna' happen!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
UK perspective IMO. Because that expection is created by the volunteers or the emergency services paid for through tax or insurance. If they refused to rescue hobbyist's the expection wouldn't be there. I'd still be out there. I'll turn that around - why do volunteer agencies & emergency services go to the aid of hobbyists? I'd only request assistance in the direst of circumstances. At home I'd only call an ambulance if I /family can't get myself to hospital or I'm dying. In the UK if you have an accident on the hill - doesn't have to be your fault - & just died for want of calling the rescue services you'd be considered a fool. Anything you take with you is contact with civilisation - food, clothing, whatever. If I have a switched-off cellphone in my pack, or my phone is also my camera & my packs weighs half that of someone else's - who's got the most contact with "civilisation"? I don't see the difference.
This discussion is reminding me of trips in the avalanche prone Washington State snow country years ago. At the trailhead, hiking partners would trade snow shovels. The first time I asked why. They said that the shovel you bring will be used to dig you out. "If you bring a light weight plastic shovel, that's what I will use." I then went out and bought a metal snow shovel. I never had a light weight lexan shovel again after that. And, again I want to ask if anyone has successfully charged their devices with a Bio-Lite stove? Ken in NC
I cracked a high end plastic snow-shovel years ago. I know 'plastics' have improved but metal all the way for me too. I use the red Norwegian Rottefella shovel & couldn't resist picking up the earlier Whitco version cheap on ebay. I also have a Camp one. Handy for the car boot/trunk.
Ross: Yes, since I was stuck in the snow a few years ago, I keep a small telescoping all metal aluminum shovel (Costco, $20 for two) in each car as well as a nylon tow strap (Sportsmans Guide). At the time, I had to wait for a nice fellow from a local utility to pull me out. I am better prepared now. When I lived in Northern Vermont, most intelligent people carried a tow chain all the time and a shovel. A nice tradition seemed to prevail that if you saw someone in the ditch, you stopped to pull him out and if you went into the ditch, you could expect someone to help you out. I pulled several people out and was pulled out myself a few times. Paul
Reminds me of the old observation that the most accurate predictor of death by avalanche is one's having taken an avalanche safety course....
8) But of course it's not the instructor! If you take an avalanche safety course, that means that you are going to go into avalanche country on purpose. To me it could never be worth it; but to each his own. First rule of the Tacoma Nordic Ski club (of which I am grandfather and president-for-life): we don't go where there could be avalanches.
Isn't it true that 90 or so percent of avalanche deaths are caused by the person in the avalanche or the team they are with? Ken in NC
I suspect that this is true, because if they weren't there, there would have been no deaths. Indeed, I think the figure is close to 100%. 8)
That is not how an emergency beacon (PLB/EPIRB/ELT) operates or is utilized. An emergency beacon operates on 406 MHz, which communicate to the COSPAS-SARSAT satellite constellation consisting of four polar orbiting LEO and three GOES Satellites. Emergency beacons are "set it and forget it" devices to summon emergency assistance. In marine environments the beacon can be auto-activated (vessel taking on water). Once activated a emergency beacon continually transmits its distress signal and will also transmit a homing signal on 121.5 MHz. SAR will utilize DF technology to find your location. Emergency beacons with GPS receivers can send along coordinates in the distress signal, which will assist SAR in finding you. The distress signal transmission occurs at continual intervals until the device is deactivated or its power source is exhausted. NOAA and AFRCC are the RCCs that monitor beacon activations. To be clear: An emergency beacon is not used for tracking and cannot be used for tracking. Its use is (by law - in the US and most likely in other countries) for imminent threat to loss of life, limb, or sight. I'm sure there are a few other use cases that would qualify for emergency use. The owner is required to register their PLB with the proper authority of their country (in the US it is NOAA). It is a one-trick pony and designed for a single activation. After activation the unit must be sent in for battery replacement, system checks, new firmware, etc… before it can be readied back into service. Simply put an emergency beacon can save your life.
Evening, Craig, It's apparent that you totally missed the fact that that statement was made in a humorous vein. Sorry you misunderstood my intentions. I got a note from a good friend here, who thought what I wrote was funny, and that's the way it was meant to be taken. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
that comment was probably picked up as humour by most but even so Craigs description of how it all works is still very good. One thing to add though is that at high latitudes the geo stationary satellites dont do you much good so you rely on the polar orbit satellites. For these it can mean on a non gps beacon that your location can take 12 hours to resolve correctly if you are not in an ideal signal location.It is highly recommended that you use a gps equipped version in high latitudes so your location is found first pass. Most of New Zealand falls into this area.Similar North and South latitudes also should use gps equipped beacons
They now are trying tracertrack in nz, These put out a pulse every 10min so you can be tracked on the move.
I know a few people that have tried Spot beacons with very mixed results. All of these things it doesnt matter when they send out a signal a satellite has to in range to be able to listen to it
So some of us want to maintain contact with civilization and others do not. That is a personal decision we are all free to make (unless you live in Ukraine). This argument reminds me of the premise of the book "Walden" wherein, modern society was soundly rejected in favor of a free and humble lifestyle that did not embrace the evils of society. Except for the milled boards for the cabin. And the nails. And the cookware. And the newspapers. And on and on. We are, as Ross put it so well, always in contact with the civilization that made our equipment, our food, our clothes, etc. We are only arguing about degrees of contact. Choose whatever makes sense for you.
It is a free choice except that those that choose to have a means of communication/rescue ask someone else to risk something to rescue them. An earlier comment I made expressed that those with a means to call out may also take a risk they may not take if that means was not there. Maybe just a minor detail, but a state of mind that may place Search And Rescue members at risk because of that state of mind. I have had that scary thought on many a solo trip in Grand Canyon. "If I slip, no one will even miss me for 5 more days. " Instead of, "I better check the battery of my device. " When my decisions affect others, I don't know the consequences. Such as a family of a park ranger dying to extract a climber on Mt Rainier that climbed in icy conditions "Not recommended for climbing". (Aug 1995 Sean Ryan & another ranger died trying to get to him.) The 2 climbers with the man left him and called for help. I am not the only person my decisions affect. So, we really are not free to do as we please. That's why we have laws. Ken in NC
