Attempt at making a 0.23mm jet using the "Presscall" technique

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by Go Scout, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. Go Scout

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    Hopefully I am posting this in the correct forum!

    Having followed the brilliant 'out of the box' thinking by @presscall I decided that I would try his technique for making a 0.23mm jet nipple with a view to then having a go at a lipstick at some future date.

    I opted for an oversized 0.32mm nipple as a guinea pig and set about getting the bits and bobs together.

    Firstly, I looked into getting some silver brazing rods. Halfords, Wickes and B&Q here in the UK all sell rods of some sort or other, and many more can be found on ebay.

    In the end, I settled on the following as they resemble what I've used in the past on RC aeroplanes and they seemed reasonably priced ...

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    ... £10.50 including postage from ebay. 5 x 10" rods in a handy storage tube and some easy to use flux. Also included was a beginners guide to silver brazing.

    I also ordered some hypodermic needles from ebay, £8.25 for 100 including postage. Erm, not sure why I ordered 100 when I could have ordered a smaller quantity for less money, but ....

    20170816_134733.jpg
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    ... O/D 0.51mm I/D at least 0.22mm.

    I have been measuring and colour coding the prickers that I have as there seems to be some variation between makers. My green ones are for 0.23mm jets and vary in size from 0.22mm to 0.27mm. I write the actual measurement on the pricker, so the one pictured above measured 0.22mm.

    0.28mm and above, I colour code blue and use for the 0.32mm sized jets, excepting the ones marked 'Primus 4751'(?) which measure in at 0.60mm and are used for my Primus #3.

    I have several unused Liberty roarer burners and decided to chop one up in order to make a nipple holder. I couldn't resist chopping the top of the burner as well to get a look inside ...

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    ... before getting some other tools ready ...

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    After a thorough search of my workshop, I couldn't find my 0.5mm drill bits. Actually, I'm not certain that I have any anyway. A quick play on my smartphone and 10 drill bits on their way from China for 99p including postage. Hmmm! there're going to take forever to get here, so another quick play and 10 arriving from within the UK for £2.95. Now I have 20 drill bits heading my way and work has come to a halt. Time for a sandwhich and a coffee and 'thinking time'.

    "Ping" lightbulb moment!

    If the needles are stainless steel and have a sharp bevelled point, and the top of the nipple is thin brass, then why can't I use the needle itself as a drill bit? ...

    20170816_135445.jpg

    ... by gently rolling the orange part between thumb and finger, the needle bored a hole through the top of the nipple in seconds, no need for a drill or drill bits!
    Using the hobby drill and a cutting disc, I cut off the needle and tried the 'blunt' end in the newly bored hole, being careful not to prick my finger on the exposed pointy end ...

    20170816_140621.jpg
    ... and of course, cleaned up the top of the jet with dry 'wet and dry' paper.

    The handle of the pricker served as a spatula to get some flux ready for use, and a piece of wire was fashioned to hold the 'nipple holder' in the vice in such a way as to minimise heat sink ...

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    ... then get the blow torch going. By firstly heating the silver rod (but not enough to melt it) I was able to pre-flux the rod by simply dipping it into the white powdered flux. I then heated the nipple and briefly 'dabbed' the silver rod to the joint and hey presto! ....

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    ... job almost done.

    A quick trim with the hobby drill, followed by a filing and pricking (not as neat as John's!)

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    Now this stove ....

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    ... is of course a Burmos 21, one pinter. It runs beautifully already as I'm sure you'll agree. What it does offer above all my other similar stoves is the option to 'hot-swap' the nipple. So above, it is running with it's existing nipple, and moments later, with the 'new' nipple ....

    20170816_145425.jpg 20170816_145449.jpg 20170816_145535.jpg 20170816_145603.jpg

    By 'hot swapping', I mean that I can whip out the burner centre plug and swap the jet over using my home made jet tool, all whilst the burner is too hot to touch...

    20170816_144507.jpg

    ... a standard 'straight' jet removal tool is too wide to pass through the top hole in the burner. The two locked nuts at the top of my tool are not for a spanner, but to enable me to get enough purchase to tighten the jet by finger and thumb pressure alone.

    20170816_150353.jpg

    So what's the verdict?

    John's technique was very easy to master and very successful. I am now feeling confident enough to tackle the 1 dodgy lipstick on one of my Monitor 17B's in the near future.

    A big, big thank you to John for his clever thinking and for sharing with us all, well done Sir!

    Baz

    ... just got to find a use for the other 98 needles .....
     
  2. Rangie

    Rangie Subscriber

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    Exellent job, well done that man :thumbup: :content:

    The lipstick may need a little more help to remain central but i'm sure you'll overcome this!

    psst..... wanna sell 10 needles? 8] :whistle:

    Alec.
     
  3. Go Scout

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    Hi @Rangie
    Thanks, but credit must go to John for such a simple and easy technique. The only bit I've really added was using the needle as a drill bit.
    I was thinking of using a pillar drill to keep the needle vertical and central in a lipstick whilst brazing when the time comes.
    As for the needles, I'd gladly give you some, but it would probably cost more in p&p than to buy off ebay!

    Baz
     
  4. teckguy_58

    teckguy_58 United States Subscriber

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    @Go Scout

    Well done Sir.
    It is always good to find people who are willing to think outside the box.
    As 0.23mm jets are getting more and more scarce one can now opt for using the 0.32mm jet with John's great idea of resizing the jet to a 0.23mm. Of course one could use the oversized 0.23mm jet for the same purpose.
    Thank you for sharing and again well done Sir well done indeed.

    Cheers,
    Norman
     
  5. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    @Go Scout
    Well I'm tickled pink to read that - good on you Baz!

    Using the hypodermic needle as a drill and the needle holder to rotate it was a stroke of genius. I liked seeing the Liberty burner dissection too.

    You'll find working on a lipstick burner a doddle, not so fiddly.

    Just a query as to why you're running a 0.23mm jet in a Burmos 21 when the standard jet is a 0.32mm one?

    I must acknowledge again @Doug L for the hypo needle jet liner idea. I just implemented it.

    It's a handy technique for sure. Just tonight I found another use for it. The jet pricker needle on the control spindle of this Governor gasoline blowlamp had broken off.

    IMG_5476.JPG


    I cut a groove with a Dremel in the tip of the spindle and silbrazed a length of hypo needle with a 0.32mm bore in it in the groove.

    IMG_5474.JPG


    Cut to the length I wanted and trimmed.

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    Length of 0.32mm pricker wire inserted in the hypo needle and crimped in place.

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    Reason I did it that way rather than silbraze a length of pricker wire directly onto the tip of the spindle is that it's nigh impossible to do without burning the wire up it in the heat of the flame. The hypo needle takes the heat much better as you found Baz.

    John
     
  6. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Go Scout

    Great work!

    @presscall

    That last post of yours is a good bit of lateral thinking and has wise application got repairing prickers. I think it would be so good to a re-post of the technique with its own title.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  7. Go Scout

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    @presscall

    "Just a query as to why you're running a 0.23mm jet in a Burmos 21 when the standard jet is a 0.32mm one?"

    Simply a case of my lack of knowledge!

    The Burmos came with a Burmos pricker in a wrapper labelled "No 0 size". I have measured the pricker which came in at 0.25mm, so I painted the end green (part my new system of easy pricker identification) and wrote the actual size on it "25".

    The other pricker shown (not related to this stove) measured in at 0.29mm, a tad big for 23's so I painted it blue for use with 32's!

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    Additionally, I remember reading (somewhere on CCS) about the 1970's fuel crisis and that manufacturers were introducing 23's on similar stoves like this RM picnic stove ...

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    ... and the printed instruction sheet has been rubber stamped on the reverse saying that size 0 prickers should be used etc.

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    So, I whipped out the 23 from the Burmos and after finding a 'good one', popped in a 32 ...

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    ... which ran rather well, but for obvious reasons, not quite as blue as the leaner 23. Looks even better with a kettle on top ...

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    ... and after making a coffee, put the Burmos with 32 jet next to the RM with 23 jet and enjoyed the moment!

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    Baz
     
  8. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    @Go Scout
    Ah! I see. Good point you make about the fuel crisis. The Burmos, like its Primus 210 or Optimus 00 equivalents was intended to run with a 0.32mm jet but a 0.23mm one evidently runs rather well.

    I never got the reasoning for a smaller jet being fuel saving, because with one installed it takes longer for a given tank pressure to get the job done and if the tank pressure is upped to increase the burner output it's defeated the object. Either way, I suspect the savings are marginal.

    John
     
  9. Go Scout

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    *** UPDATE ***

    At around 10.00am this morning, the postman delivered 10 x 0.5mm dia. drill bits which is quite incredible since I only ordered them yesterday lunchtime. I had just got back from the workshop, having played around with the Burmos 21 as above.

    Back in the workshop, I dug out and lit the Monitor 17B stove with the offending 'lipstick' and to my surprise, it ran beautifully. So I dug out the other 17B and lit that, and that too ran great. Hmmm! Maybe it was one of the Primus 96's, only the one I ran yesterday* went nicely too. So it can only be my other lipstick stove - another Primus 96, and indeed it was! The flame seemed to be gushing to one side, producing 2 over large petals and 2 almost non-existent petals, despite rotating the burner bell.

    In the blink of an eye, a 0.5mm drill bit had enlarge the hole in the top of the lipstick and a hypodermic needle had been silver soldered in place. From start to finish, probably 2 minutes at most. Alas, no photo's as it happened all too quickly. However, the filing and polishing took a little longer in order to bring the job upto Johns photo standards, and here it is ...

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    ... and then of course I had to light it up ....

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    Tah-dah! 2x Monitor 17B's and a Primus 96 that features a re-worked lipstick!

    Easy peasy, lemon squeezy!

    Seriously, get the consumables and give it a go, you'll be surprised at just how easy it is!

    Baz

    * Hi! My name is Baz. I suffer from stovepox and have to light all manner of stoves in my workshop in order to feed my habit. Yesterday, I ran the Burmos 21 and the RM 331, but I also ran a Primus 96 too for good measure. I promise not to light the Primus 3 in the workshop so that I won't burn the place down. I agree to eat more chocolate and go to bed before midnight at least once a fortnight.
     
  10. shagratork

    shagratork United Kingdom Moderator, R.I.P. Subscriber

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    Great story, Baz!!
     
  11. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    @Go Scout
    So satisfying for me to see that result, Baz, reassures me that I set out the procedure well enough.

    John
     
  12. MrAlexxx SotM Winner

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    *thinks* I can do that if and when I have to. You guy's are brilliant!!! :)
     
  13. Doug L

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    great work
     
  14. JP2

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    Love it, Well Done

    Thank for sharing