Meths stove conundrum

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by Doc Mark, Oct 29, 2017.

  1. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Greetings, All,

    I'm doing some advance planning for a 2-3 day backpacking trip, which I hope happens in the near future. When deciding upon a stove and cook set, I grabbed some old favorites, at first: SVEA 123 with Sigg Tourist kit; SVEA 123, with small Coleman cook set; Optimus #11, with MSR pots; MSR Universal, of course with MSR pots.

    Then, I started thinking about using Meths stove(s), instead of those needing Coleman Fuel. That caused a bit of consternation on my part, as I would immediately think, "Trangia", and did, indeed, grab two Trangia 27 outfits. One was an older model, which was very kindly sent our way by Ross and Tess a while back, along with DuoSSal pots, and to which I added a Trangia kettle; The second one was also a 27, but this one was a very lightweight Aluminum model, with two pots, and Teflon skillet/lid. I'd be happy with either kit, but whilst the AL kit is lighter in weight, I've never used it, and have no experience with it. I've used the older kit, with DuoSSal pot(s), and or, kettle, many times and feel quite comfortable and have a sentimental attachment to it, even though it's a bit heavier than the new AL kit .

    Furthermore, I grabbed Gary's Redspeedster kit, with 60ml burner, and it's windscreen and pot; a stainless steel Trangia Click Stand stove setup with Evernew 900ml Ti pot and aluminum windscreen; and, also the lightweight MSR Trail Lite Duo System, complete with bowl(s), tea cup(s), and pot, with lid, which would go with either of the two stoves mentioned in this paragraph. It's 1 1/2 ounces heavier than the Redspeedster pot, and 2 1/4 ounces heavier than the Ti pot. BUT, it's taller, allows for bigger meals, easy to use, and cleans up very, very easily.

    At this time, I'm weighing everything, and will have to decide which set, or set(s) to take. I know that, IF I take the Click Stand set, I'll also bring Gary's Redspeedster set, and vice versa, as I like to have two pots, or a kettle and one pot. That way, I can make my tea, and enjoy that, as I'm making my soup and dinner at the same time. Works for me, anyway.

    That brings me to food: tea is no problem, of course; however, the available packet soups don't seem to be what they used to be. WAAAYYYY too much salt in almost all of them!! YIKES!! Just what my HBP needs! Knorr used to make several wonderful packet soups, which were easy to enjoy, very tasty, and had a much lower sodium level, than the packet soups I found in the store yesterday! Looks like my search for a good packet soup is not going to be as easy as I'd hoped. Dinners will be some sort of cheese tortellini pasta, with a tomato leather type sauce, and some sausage or other dried meat. The morning and lunch meals will be easy, with nut mix, protein bars, tea/soup, and dried fruit being the chosen fare.

    I'm going to have a great time deciding on the stove/pot combos, and look forward to some in-depth testing. For those UK Mates who have experience using the Redspeedster setup, it appears that you are using boil in a bag meals, or packet meals, is that right? What have you tried that you really enjoy eating, when out and about, and that give you enough "go-power" to do well, and not feel like you're starving?

    I'll take some photos of the process, and testing, and post them here, when push comes to shove. Though I'll decide which set seems to work best for my intended purposes, I'd appreciate hearing what you all would take, from the sets I've listed above, and most definitely would like to hear from those with Redspeedster experience, as to what sorts of meals you've fixed with that excellent bit of kit from Gary! Thanks for perusing, and for any and all comments, suggestions, and advice you may wish to share here. Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  2. pulsar

    pulsar Subscriber

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    I would probably go for the Trangia 27 Doussal, or the SVEA and Coleman setup.

    If I were to have to choose from my selection right now, I would probably use the Evernew Appalachian set. The only thing I may change about that is swapping in a Trangia burner as I am not a fan of having no lid on the Evernew titanium burner. Just seems like it will lead to wasted fuel having to either guess too much and let the excess burn off, or not using enough fuel, letting it cool off, refill and try again.
     
  3. shagratork

    shagratork United Kingdom Moderator, R.I.P. Subscriber

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    Very interesting, Doc, but what on earth is a tomato leather type sauce?
     
  4. BradB

    BradB United States Subscriber

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    With so many stoves and pots it is hard to choose! When this happens to me I most times end up grabbing my Trangia 27 non stick set if alone, or the 25 HA set for 2 or more. Trangia makes it all too easy to have the right combinations since they already did the thinking for you. Including wind screen.
     
  5. Ed Winskill

    Ed Winskill United States Subscriber

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    Trangia or Svea with Sigg,
     
  6. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark SotM Winner Subscriber

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    @shagratork ,
    Evening, Trevor!

    "Tomato leather type sauce", is a dehydrated pasta sauce that we make, ourselves. If someone has a good dehydrator, they can lay Cling Film on a few of the shelves, and then spread a thin layer of either store-bought, or home-made tomato-based pasta sauce on the film. If you make it too thick, the "leather" won't dry enough, and may spoil much more quickly. So, keep the layers thin. Best not to use chunky stuff, either, for the just mentioned reason. We set the dehydrator at around 95°F , and let it do it's thing for a day, or so. Then, when the leather is no longer runny, we peel it off the Cling Film, and gently lay it back on the screened shelf, for more time of drying. When it's finished, you can roll it up, like a fruit leather, or, simply stack the leathers, placing them in a plastic bag, and keeping them in a cool, dry place. When you are heading out, grab enough leathers for the number of nights that you need to cook dinner, and your favorite pasta (we dried use 4-cheese Tortellini). If you want more veggie chunks, then you can also dehydrate those, and take them in a separate bag, to add to your pasta as it is re-hydrating and cooking. You then rip off enough of the tomato leather that you will have a nice, delicious sauce, and you can also add slices of sausage, once the pasta and sauce are ruminating nicely, for some added protein. That's about it, actually.

    More wholesome, and far more tasty than most "boil in the bag" meals, this is easy to make, and we never tire of it. On our PCT trips, we usually came up with four different meals, and this was one of them. Eating each, in rotation, made for a great, and very healthy diet, and was certainly tasty fare, to be sure!!

    So, unless I am eating "boil in the bag" meals, which may happen (though I hope not!), I need to make sure I can cook in the stove I choose. I also like to eat a fairly large meal, when on the trail, so tiny pots don't get it, for me. I look forward to hearing from those who have used the Redspeedster setup for a while, to see what they eat, and how it works for them. So far, I've only boiled water with my own such set. It's most certainly well designed, and exceedingly light. But, I know that cooking in a Trangia is easy, and works a treat. That might end up being the most important factor in my eventual choice. If you have any more questions about that tomato leather, please give me a shout, and I'll try to do better in answering them. Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Mark

    P.S. @BradB , and @Ed Winskill ,@pulsar ,

    Brad and Ed, thanks for your thoughts. My own thoughts are close to yours, in what outfit to choose. I've used the SVEA/Sigg combo for so many years, that I could probably do it in my sleep. And, the Trangia sets are also very easy, very comfortable for me to use. I trust both of these sets, completely. I ruled out the SVEA/Coleman combo, as those little Coleman pots are too darned small, for the type of cooking I do. But, both of the super lightweight sets are also very nice, take up very little room, and are, indeed, much lighter in your pack, even if I take along both of them. Therein, lies the Meth Stove Conundrum, Gentlemen!
     
  7. BradB

    BradB United States Subscriber

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    @Doc Mark , I have a super light weight meths stove made by Pack a Feather. The stove weighs around 50 g if I remember and can even simmer. But, man, is it fragile! I have used it backpacking several times and I remember being super careful. One wrong step and the stove would become a frisbee! I used it with an MSR pot, maybe about 1L.
     
  8. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark SotM Winner Subscriber

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    @BradB ,

    Thanks, Brad! I'll check that out, for future trips. Right now, I'm happy with the choices I already own, so it will be amongst them from which I will choose which one(s) accompany me on this trip. Thanks for the suggestion, though, and I'll certainly check it out! Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  9. shagratork

    shagratork United Kingdom Moderator, R.I.P. Subscriber

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    @Doc Mark

    Hi Doc, thanks for the explanation. The dehydrating of a sauce sounds excellent.
    For some time I have thought about buying a dehydrator, so I will now look into it.
    From your experience are there any particular features that will make a certain dehydrator better than another?
     
  10. Simes

    Simes R.I.P.

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    @shagratork

    Beat me to it Trevor. Have had a quick look around after the thread where I pondered dehydrating tinned All Day Breakfasts. Tesco do one but it would be nice to find a recommended one. Allotment websites are my next port of call, along with food preserving. Fermentation preservation is also gaining in popularity, and sauerkraut seems like a good solution for excess cabbage production.
     
  11. redspeedster

    redspeedster United Kingdom Subscriber

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    Doc
    As you would imagine I now only use the Redspeedster cook kit backpacking and like you I can eat a decent meal. Ross gets away with 550ml pot, not me 1l minimum.
    You can cook pretty much as you do with a Trangia 27.

    Here I have Idahoan (thanks to USA stovies for the tip off) cheddar mash, dehydrated beef mince (hamburger?) dehydrated garden peas, sweet corn and a good sprinkle of Dried fried onions at the end.
    Sorry steam has affected the photo. I cozy cooked this batch but simmering works just as well.

    DSCF1692.JPG

    [​IMG]

    Pasta is my mainstay though, usually tomato based like yourself sometimes with chorizo added for flavour.
    I like to fry the chorizo first.
    DSCF1400.JPG

    I like rice for an evening meal also, usually quick cook with curry sauce veg and either minced beef or jerky.

    I carry bags of jerky, dried beef mince, peas, sweetcorn, chorizo, rice, potato, pasta and sauces and just assemble what I fancy once camp is set up.
    I also have a seasonings bag with garlic, grated parmesan, Nandos drizzle, black pepper etc.

    Trevor Simes, I'm not an expert but this dehydrator works for me.

    [​IMG]Ezidri Snack Maker.

    Don't ask Ross what he eats backpacking, he eats the same things every day and has done for a hundred years. ;):lol:
     
  12. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

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    I use a plastic FD-61 Snackmaster American Harvest dehydrator.
    fd61openherolgwb.jpg
    I would buy an Excaliber if this one ever fails.

    I just made some venison jerky last week.

    Ken in NC
     
  13. crazydave789

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    Brother - I feel your pain

    I just did a two week self supported cycle tour around yorkshire and based a lot of my meals on pasta and sauce with dried addins for light weight high calorie and taste. open the packet and add veg/meat, butter, milk powder.

    cooking wise I always end up packing to cook more than I need, mainly because I like a seperate boiling pot and the option to cook properly given half the chance over instant meals or boil larger amounts of water if I can't source from a piped supply I was also 'training' for if I had two of us. I also tend to carry two heat sources as people get upset when you light a fire here nowadays. so a little titanium vargo decagon meths stove and a little primus adventure gas stove with the kit to refill the cans if I cant find the right thing. meths for cooking, gas for brewing up. I've got a stanley 700ml cookset pot as a water vessel, a sigg inoxal traveller 2l pan with a cheapo alu frypan/lid that failed as a nonstick item so I use it as a plate (but have found I can line it with a teflon sheet and cook that way), I found a small duossal 27 fry pan than slots inside the sigg (which was annoying as I was hoping it would go slightly larger but it is neat - just found some large duossal 25 fry pans cheap so will try those even though they are probably too big) so far it has worked. weight on a bike is not so much of an issue though it does slow you down some with 12 days worth of food and fuel on board. if I can make up a gas line then I might take the firejet out again.

    I also like my military trangia and canteen cup cooksets - if all I'm doing is boiling water for ration packs and brews then they are super simple and tough as nails. the stanley pot was purchased to try and adapt for using cycle bottles over mil canteens.

    for home dehydrating then I use the spare solar power and a 50 degree oven with the door propped open with a spoon to dry anything surplus kicking around or make jerky non stick trays or teflon oven liners from poundland.

    dried broccoli, onions, mushrooms, tuna flakes (very stinky to make) chicken roll (the sandwich type or tinned chicken dried out best for reconstitution) ham, tomato. It would work with rice or ramen mixes too, I did buy some retort type meals of meatballs that I had with cheese and onion instant mashed potato and also the pre cooked rice packets with a pouched chilli. in the past I've been happy boiling up a tin of sardines in tomato sauce in the pan with a boil in the bag rice for a quick easy camp meal.

    I bought Nido dried whole milk and added that to the mixes, breakfast/supper cereal and found it quite palletable straight into tea. better than the skimmed stuff though twice the price I'd do it again.

    I do love the way in the central USA everyone thinks ahead to preserve and store food, in the UK we really are 9 meals away from anarchy. I know its common sense when you could end up snowed in for four months but here you will be lucky to find anyone with more than a weeks worth of food in their cupboards. if anything did happen here london would be rioting within days.

    .......hang on aren't you supposed to live on coffee, jerky, beans and corn biscuits when possum, buffalo and armadillo aren't available?
     
  14. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Good Morning (For me), and Good Afternoon (For you), @redspeedster ,

    Gary, you have told me exactly what I need to know!! Thanks, tons, Mate!! The types of meals you are cooking, and eating, fit my needs, and cooking style, perfectly!!! Huge thanks for responding! Great to get it from "The Speedster", himself!! ;) :thumbup:

    I think the pot I bought from you is 500ml, but I'll check it our, just to be sure. Just now, I lined up that pot, with the Ti pot, and the MSR pot (which is 2l in size), and yours does look smaller than the 900ml Ti pot. Looks can be deceiving, so I'll measure it's capacity, and know for sure. Personally, I don't much care for actually cooking with Ti pots. So, if your pot is the smaller one, I may end up taking the MSR pot, along with your stove setup, and call it good. The MSR pot will give me plenty of room for a nice meal, and it clean's up with just a rinse and a wipe. Again, I'll be doing more testing, and will then I'll know what combo works best for me.

    Here are some photos of the pots, side by side, for comparison. L to R: Speedster pot, Evernew Ti pot, MSR 2l pot.

    1.jpg

    2.jpg

    And, some shots of our big, old, and quite well-used dehydrator, which we bought at "that same old swap meet", almost 30 years ago:

    3.jpg

    4.jpg

    5.jpg

    And, in the foreground, for size comparison, you can see my old Optimus 45, which came to me with that silent, regulated burner in place, many years ago.

    6.jpg

    I'm really enjoying testing these stoves, and in fact, did a small boil test yesterday afternoon. I compared the Clik Stand Trangia, to the Redspeedster, using all three pots, each with 12 ounces of cold water in them, to see how they each boiled water. I did not time them, because I did not have the "time" to do that. But, in the end, the Trangia burner was a bit faster than the Redspeedster. BUT, the difference was so small, as to not be a concern, IMHO. With a smaller flame, the 60ml Redspeedster stove acquitted itself quite nicely, in comparison to the larger Trangia burner. More tests to come, and I promise to photograph some of them, once I get into timing trials, etc..

    This is a fun thread for me, and I hope it is for you all, too. Thanks to all who have posted here, so far, and most especially, to Gary, as his thoughts, opinions, and experience will weigh quite a bit in my decision!! Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc

    P.S. @crazydave789 , your post came in, as I was typing up this post. Thanks for sharing your experience in this, too! Sounds like you are on the same path as Gary, and me! Well done, Sir.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
  15. pulsar

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    @snwcmpr I use the same dehydrator. I was holding off to buy an Excalibur, but I had been waiting a few years... My brother in law had the American harvester model he got as a Christmas present and never used. I traded him my dorm fridge that I wasn't using for the dehydrator he wasn't using. Worked out good for the both of us.

    @Doc Mark
    I'm guessing you may not NEED another stove, but maybe this would be of interest to you...
    https://m.banggood.com/ALOCS-1-2-Pe...mping-BBQ-Tableware-Kit-Cooker-p-1114691.html

    900ml pot and 450ml bowl. The only thing I would have liked to be different was the stove part nest inside the pot instead of the pot nesting inside the stove. Makes the overall package bigger that I was hoping and a little awkward to pack away. Though it is not really that big.

    A YouTuber I watch was showing how he does some of his food for his trips, and was showing how he dehydrated home made chili and spaghetti, and I really want to try it sometime
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
  16. Ed Winskill

    Ed Winskill United States Subscriber

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    A peek into the Hobbit Hole, Doc?
     
  17. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark SotM Winner Subscriber

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    @pulsar , @Ed Winskill ,

    Pulsar, thanks for sharing that neat little stove with me. Unfortunately, I already have quite a few of the small/tall pot sets, from various makers, and in truth, I seldom reach for them when considering going out and about, unless it's just for a day hike. And, as far as "needing" another stove, remember this: NEED has absolutely NOTHING to do with it, when your a member of this Merry Band of Stove Pyros, here at CCS!!! Am I right, Mates!?!?!! Yes, indeed, I AM!! ;) :lol: :lol:

    Ed, yes, indeed, those dehydrator photos were taken just before posting them, down in the infamous "Hobbit Hole"!! I have three huge sets of shelves, and more boxes and bins than I can shake a stick at, and all of them are filled with stoves, and some lanterns and lamps!!! Now, though I seldom show it, there is also a "Hobbit Hole 2", in which there are more boxes, and some shelves, which also contain stoves, and more lanterns. I rarely go in there, sorry to say, as the lighting is horrible, and the room to move around, even worse!! Don't ask about "Hobbit Hole 3" (which really exists!), as it's most for junk, some speaker cabinets, our 10-speed bikes, Christmas lights, and other such things that we don't use much up here in the mountains. The room to move is almost non-existent in HH#3, so I only crawl in there when absolutely necessary....!! I've decided that I will very probably not live long enough to get to all the stoves that live in this house!! Some would say, that's not a problem, but for me, it's both a blessing, and also a curse!!!! For what it's worth......... (By the way, Ed, good eye, my old and dear Friend!!) Take care, best to you and yours, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  18. pulsar

    pulsar Subscriber

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    If I thought need had anything to do with it, I wouldn't have shared doc! Lol

    It's not my favorite stove by far, but I think it will be nice for trips with me and my daughter to cook up some ramen or hot chocolate. The Trangia mini and Evernew Appalachian are better suited for what I originally was hoping for that stove I linked. I knew what I was ordering, but just thought the overall package would have been slightly smaller.
     
  19. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark SotM Winner Subscriber

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    UPDATE: Greetings, All,

    I measured one liter of water, and poured it into the Redspeedster pot, and it does, indeed, hold 1l, but just barely. I'd not like to try and boil up a full liter in that neat little pot. But, 500ml, or a bit more, of water, plus your ingredients for your meal, should do quite nicely! Unable to contain myself, I poured one liter into the two liter MSR pot, filled the 60ml Speedster burner with about 50ml of Meths, and am, at this very moment, timing how long it will take this setup to boil up a liter of cold water, just for fun!! This is not serious testing, just yet, but it will be fun to see, nonetheless. Results, and thoughts, later...... Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc

    P.S. Test results: The Speedster 60 ml stove, with 50 ml of Meths in it, and the MSR 2 liter pot, using cold water, cranked out a full, rolling boil in about 14 minutes, or a tad less. I also blew out the flame, then dropped the Speedster simmering device down onto the burner, which I immediately re-lit. The stove offered a wonderful and very steady simmer, and this will, I'm absolutely sure, allow real cooking on this little Guy!! Is it a huge powerhouse of a stove? No, and it was not intended to be such a thing. But, as I was timing the boil, I also gave thought to how long it would take me to setup my tent, lay out my sleeping pad and sleeping bag, and get ready for the night. This little Speedster stove setup would have boiled the water faster than it would have taken me to do the other things I do in setting up my camp! So, I'm stoked, and look forward to more testing, which will include boiling, and cooking, out in the forest, as well as in some wind, and other situations! I think that Gary has a real winner with this little stove, already, without any further testing needed, for more outdoor cooking needs. More later....
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
  20. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark SotM Winner Subscriber

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    More thoughts on the Redspeedster setup: I was amazed at how quickly the stove, windscreen, simmering plate, and bottom plate, cool to the point that you can pack them away!! When I tested the Clik Stand Trangia, I burned my "puddies" (fingers!), trying to pack it up too quickly!! With the Speedster goodies, I found it cooled off MUCH faster, which would allow a hiker that needed to make more miles, to camp, stop, have a quick brew of tea and possibly soup, then pack the cooking gear, all in a flash, compared to the Trangia setup, which took appreciably longer to cool. Just a thought, and I'll continue to share my impressions on all this, as I go.

    Doc