So, I have been reading about the 111B as a stove with a problem "fireballs are known to happen I use kerosene only and don't use the 111B. If all I had was gas, I would use a different stove." to quote one CCS member. But the 8R is also a petrol/gas only stove, but with nothing near as much dangers it seems, readig this ant other forums. I have both the 8R and the 111B, all seals etc changed and both run on the same 4T gas, nice stoves both of them. But do I really need to worry about the 111B and not the 8R ? Or not worry at all ?
You might not have to worry so much, but you need to know how these stoves works and the possible issues. The 111B has a pump with only a small rubber (cork?) pip/seal down in the pump tube holding the rather volatile fuel in place. Compared to say the Coleman pump design, the Optimus one is not that good. All the best, e
Hello @tretrop. I agree with @tofta for sure however I also have something of an opinion to add or think about. Cork is OK if kept supple and replaced at intervals. How long? I don't know personally but my 111B got a Viton pip and fuel cap gasket / pip included without even thinking about it twice. Also IMHO the 111B can be a monster if you want and also simmer too and everything in between. A fireball may ensue if seals and such are bad and also if somebody "pumps it up" way too much. This stove just doesn't need that much pressure to operate at top notch temps. Those that have gotten a bad experience most likely didn't maintain it or pumped up the pressure way too high. Just my opinion. Use that 111B after proper maintenance and don't worry. Its a great stove.
Although I had replaced pip and my 111B worked fine, I found that every time I used the stove I thought about the possibilities of a failure. It bothered me enough that I got rid of the stove and got a 111 kerosene burner. It probably says as much about me as it does the stove. I have and use a couple 8R’s with complete confidence. As for gas pressure stoves, I have and use many Coleman stoves and lanterns which I believe have a far superior design. It’s not that I am oblivious of any danger with other gas appliances, but for me the 111B was not worth the aggravation. Others will feel differently.
First of all, no one should work beyond their safety comfort level. If you think the 111B is dangerous then don't get one. Stay away from all the Enders too. And the Austrian Phoebus gas models and Russian Schmels. Probably best to avoid any gas stoves with a pump except the Colemans. Maybe the Colemans should be avoided too as there have been reports here of the pump tubes filling with gas when the stoves were overfilled or the check valves not operating correctly. I enjoy my 111B. As @Mark Layman says above it produces a perfect flame from full blast to a small barely there simmer. I especially like the fact I don't need to bring alcohol for a preheat and can start it with the tank fuel. For it to catch on fire you need a catastrophic pump valve failure. The pump tube has to entirely fill with fuel so that it flows out into the case and lights. I give my stove 10 or 12 pumps, pull the pump rod out and check for leaks then preheat and haven't had any problems. Ray
The 8 can vent out the SRV if run too long on high. Better stay away from it too as it was designed to do that. Duane
tretrop, Below I think I tell you things you already know, but it is answers to question. re: A. do I really need to worry about the 111B B. [do I not worry] about the 8R? C. How do the Colman do it then? You mention fireball... there can be a very small poof of a fireball or a large fireball and some may think fireball / explosion. I'll not use that term. Fuel / vapor release that can result in unexpected instant fire is something I worry about. C. Coleman's check valve: the seal is achieved using SS ball bearing and brass seat (no issue w/worn or old pip failing). As important is an air vent tube is attached to pump tube, if check valve fails, *air leaks out into pump tube (vs fuel). B. 8R, no pump, does not share the pump valve concern/worry present on the 111B. 8R is less worry. A. Learn to use an 111B, yes use it. Can you say "just use it, don't worry about it"?... no. imo. Sorry, imo, A, B & C you should "worry" whenever using any WG (white gas) stove. WG/CF/4T stoves are for outdoor use only and not in tent. Before using such a stove, imo, it is required to: >be familiar (so not "ok" to loan to someone not familiar). >think safety first, think about "what if" a mishap might occur. ie fuel/vapor release. Make choices to operate as safely as possible. A fuel / vapor release or spill can happen. This is something to worry about with any/all WG/CF/4T apparatus. A pump adds to the risk, the 111B pump design adds then again a bit more. The 111B has a single point of failure (that is prone to failure). If NRV fails fuel can release into pump tube and if that goes unnoticed can ignite. This scenario is something unique to worry about that is absent on most other WG/CF/4t stoves. Ray uses his 111B regularly, he worries about the NRV, imo, as routine ie "...pull the pump rod out and check for leaks" . thx omc *If a Coleman is overfull or carried/handled upside down, fuel can enter the vent tube. Only then, and if check valve leaks, it is, very rare, but it is possible for fuel to leak into a coleman pump tube as well. This is fire danger scenario. Coleman designed their stoves to prevent this from happening (the 111B does not prevent this). sorry for going long. thx omc
This would also apply to Enders 9060/9061 also as it is gas and similar construction of pumptube etc?
There should be no real issues with any of them, Its all down to maintenance I've just put a new nrv pip in my zip stove it cost less than $2.00 so bought more as spares in fact I've now got a big collection of washers,pump leathers etc though expect the stoves i use most probably wont need a lot of attention as they wont be sitting around to dry out in the seal dept,What I've been doing is--rescue/buy a stove, fit new washers etc to make sure they are working as intended,mainly I guess because it bugs me having non working stuff around the place :-) That said i'm still battling with my primus #5 which is very temperamental and insists on bursting into a sooty yellow flame whenever I'm not watching it
Good evening all. I don´t have a 111B but: what if you replace the pip (cork or viton) with a SS ball bearing of the right dimensions, in the clasic Optimus NRV? Take care Enrique
@shueilung.2008 The design of the NRV as it is does not provide a proper seat for a ball bearing. Might be machined, but it would still be a single point of failure design.
Yes, what @Garth mentioned is my sentiments exactly. Optimus, Primus, Svea and many others produced stoves with the usual NRV pip system for many many years. If they kept fire balling will nilly all the time they would have made a change. Mechanics maintain airplanes at regular intervals because people cannot fly. Stoves need to be maintained and used properly simply because people burn. I do agree the Coleman design is much better. Just my two cents.
I'll just add that, as far as I know, most all* of the pumps on fuel-bottle-on-a-hose stoves also have the same minimal safety features as the traditional 111B, Enders, M1950, Phoebus, everything we have seen from China, etc. *The exception being the (new?) MSR pumps which at least have a snorkel which should vent air rather than fuel if (when) the check valve leaks (provided the bottle is oriented correctly). I like my 111B, as well as several other non-Coleman Coleman-fuel stoves. I just make sure the pump shaft stays put before I light it.
