Simmering on an Optimus 00

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by Haggis, May 24, 2021.

  1. Haggis

    Haggis Subscriber

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    The weather has warmed enough here that I’m comfortable getting up my morning porridge on our back porch table… (Herself doesn’t care for the smell of kerosene, but will tolerate my cooking beyond at least one door…)

    Anyway, I’ve started my stove rotation and for the first time noticed that my 1/2 Monitor 17B will turn down to nearly nothing,,, barely a flame at all… (I put the porridge oats and water in a pot, crank up the heat until it boils, and whilst stirring, gradually turn the heat down as it thickens.)

    After a week with the 17B, today it was an Optimus 00 on the firing line for its week at work; I wasn’t expecting the results… I’ve used the stove many times to simply boil water, but as I tried to turn it ever lower in the porridge preparing process, it simply would go out… Bear in mine, this is a small quantity of water, 1 1/3 cup, and it thickened by the oats, so to “simmer” requires but little heat,,, very little heat…

    Just a curiosity on my part; “Will a typical 1/2 pint lipstick burner burn at lower heat than a typical 1 pint burner”? I understand that the differently configured burners will allow one to burn hotter than the other, but is the reverse also true, does the lipstick burner have the cooking advantage on the low end?

    Maybe it’s just my 00? Certainly I’m going to take notes this year as I work my way through my stoves…

    Just something to fiddle with I suppose, and maybe someone has done this before… Which stove has the broadest range of cooking abilities, or which of mine?

    Two stoves is a small sampling, but as I mentioned, I’m going to be taking cooking notes on each stove…
     
  2. Ed Winskill

    Ed Winskill United States Subscriber

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    I can't answer the comparison question, but I've cooked a lot on an 00, and while you can turn it down, simmering isn't really practical.

    On most hikes, we cook steaks and a side dish, the side dish usually being a Knorr product; those short noodles, with cheese or this and that.

    We don't bother to try to simmer. Just take the pot off when it boils, let it sit, then put it on again if needed, then off, etc. If just the one stove, we alternate with the steaks.
     
  3. Dean

    Dean United Kingdom Subscriber

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    I have been using a couple of my Op.00's recently, one an older Patent Stockholm and one much younger. Massively different when it comes to reducing pressure by opening the PRV air screw. One turns down quite controllably, while with the other you could almost remove the screw completely before the flame starts to die down! No science to help you - just an observation.
    Dean
     
  4. Marc

    Marc Subscriber

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    Time for a simmer plate.
     
  5. Haggis

    Haggis Subscriber

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    @Dean ,,, I’m assuming there’ll be some differences, perhaps even radical differences between stoves,,, all part of the fun and surprises of these old stoves… Interesting that you have two of the same sort, and them so different…

    @Marc ,,, You are probably correct…
     
  6. 907_Nick

    907_Nick United States Subscriber

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    If you want to make some taller legs, you can use the riser from a larger stove (like an Optimus 45) - this will let you screw a full sized silent burner onto the Optimus 00 fount. It really doesn't add too much height and the silent burners simmer like champs.
     
  7. Ed Winskill

    Ed Winskill United States Subscriber

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    The problem I see with this is that one would be turning an outdoor hiking/camping stove into an indoor domestic.
     
  8. Haggis

    Haggis Subscriber

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    @907_Nick That is a thought for sure…

    I eat porridge oats every morning for breakfast at home, breakfast and lunch if I’m camping… Not so bad with the instant type oatmeal,,, just boil water, pour it over the oats in a bowl, and wait a few minutes… The cooking sort of oats take 3 minutes from boiling to done, but the heat gets steadily reduced along the way… Maybe, as @Marc mentioned above, a simmer plate may be the easiest fix for the 00 if I’m going to use it to prepare porridge oats… I have simmer plates as part of the standard kit in a couple of Coleman 530’s,,, maybe I borrow one from a 530 and try it on the 00?

    I’m on day 4 of the week long cycle for this stove, and it has behaved the same every time; in the last 30 seconds it wants to go out… Kinda fun to see what these stoves can do when preparing the same meals I eat in the bush…
     
  9. OMC

    OMC United States Subscriber

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    @Haggis ,
    Thank you for sharing your testing :thumbup::thumbup:. , Sorry to trouble you but a pic of stove on day 1 (regardless of performance day 1 onward), allows us to see what you're dealing with.

    Re: “Will a typical 1/2 pint lipstick burner burn at lower heat than a typical 1 pint burner”? I understand that the differently configured burners will allow one to burn hotter than the other, but is the reverse also true, does the lipstick burner have the cooking advantage on the low end?"

    ^^^ is a good question.
    I'm unaware of answer or discussion on-topic.

    Oh SMolson of Ottawa is among several members I miss on a regular basis and here and now. He used his pressure stoves daily.
    Kerophile has a tea test.
    SMolson would do boil test per stove, wanting to get optimal output and ALSO, a "user" for him... it has to cook rice (maintain a controllable simmer).
    I can not link to him cooking rice on a 00 or 210.
    He did say this about his 50s? 00: ... has a good heat range ...
    "... Out of all the available draughtshields that came packaged with stoves throughout the last century, I feel Optimus's version for their roarers is by far the best in terms of performance/design and practicality. Tight fitting, only 1 access hole, small, strong, simple design, stays put and does the job. ... The Optimus No. 00 is a great little camping stove, a classic in almost every way. She's not a gas guzzler, has a good heat range, good pot support, stable, dependable, a beauty in form/function, small and compact with good fuel capacity. Her design has basically remained the same since she came on the market, over 100 years ago now. No stove 'collection' is complete without at least one of these characters." source
    absent hearing from him, fwiw, i get the impression his simmered well.
    ------------------------------

    Your 00 in-question... is it your 1971?
    Design performance-wise A. A 1971 Optimus-made 00 is exact same as the Optimus-made 210 and 121.
    B. I wonder if the later examples do not simmer as well as early Optimus 00 (or Primus 210, Svea 121)?.
    ------------------------------

    With all due respect, as much as simmer plate could help/solve situ ... it seems the sought after solution is, if possible, to improve the 00's simmer. Comments such as Dean's re success (or not) simmering with 00 could advance the topic.
    I was unaware a 00 (early or later) did not simmer well.
    --------------------------------------

    Thinking out loud here, uh oh....
    In advance of test any stove must be at or near it's optimal; performance (ie 1 liter boil test).
    For a simmer test, a stove would obtain/maintain adequate heat (be completely "warmed-up n ready").
    THEN, by design, as flame is dialed down...
    Question: are some models or versions better at maintaining that (self pressurizing) heat even when heat source is turned waaayyy down?
    There are a few obvious factors (mass, thermal feedback, *heat loss/retention...) BUT the full answer (per ea. model / version design). I don't have a guess, but answer(s) may be within design and not among those more obvious factors.

    *Would a close-fit brass drought shield improve simmer?

    -or- With "original" drought shield in-place (note brass or steel).
    Stove design is for average use, if best simmer is the goal...
    maybe a brass inner shield (thermal feedback+),
    steel outside shield / wind screen (heat retention+). ...again just thinking out loud here.
    ---------------------------------------------

    I presume the 17B ran with drought shield in-place and now the 00 like wise.
    So far it is only Dean sharing his experience with 1 of his 2 00s "...turns down quite controllably",
    while his other one: simmering is problematic.
    ----------------------------------------------

    Lastly a 2nd sub-topic: turning on a small fan might be helpful re the: "... to see what these stoves can do when preparing the same meals I eat in the bush" .
    sorry i gotta run for today but you have captured my interest. ATB to you.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2021
  10. redspeedster

    redspeedster United Kingdom Subscriber

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  11. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    Not so much in my experience between liquid fuel pressure stoves. Butane stoves set the standard for a very low output, a mere whisp of flame.

    Discounting ‘bottle’ stoves, many of which are poor at simmering, the worst performer I’ve encountered was this Russian ‘Prim Compact’.

    E90A79A0-6892-4D66-96CE-CA932D0AE204.jpeg


    Responsible for the lack of regulation was the tip angle of the control spindle. Optimus 111 on the left, Prim Compact on the right. Machining a more acute angle on the spindle tip resolved matters, dramatically so.

    FF553F8F-C161-4F29-BFF2-744A53658F16.jpeg


    Of non-regulated stoves, jet orifice size and fuel pressure determine the range of flame control. Creating a better simmering ability in a stove with a tubular burner, such as an Optimus 00 is easily achieved by swapping the ‘correct’ 0.32mm jet nipple for a 0.23mm one.
     
  12. OMC

    OMC United States Subscriber

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    Not my circus but I appreciate the 2 comments above, TY, TY.
    presscall notes, if i get this right,
    the small 4 tube vs lipstick: simmer abilities should be comparable.
    That's good to hear.

    We may yet hear more from others re "good simmer" on their 00s (210, 121 etc). Or simmer as good as lipstick.

    Sorry. Above, I went long yet I missed an obvious point.
    Re my request for stove pic,
    it's best if pic would include the whole setup.
    For me, I always credit a reminder dogface had made years ago that stove performance has to factor-in the whole setup (from base/tank to the pot's lid).

    Haggis, We're in the dark re basic factors of your porridge cooking setup that are in front of you.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2021
  13. Haggis

    Haggis Subscriber

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    @OMC I’m heading into the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness in the morning, and likely be late coming out, but Sunday I’ll try to post some photos, and see if that helps things along… Thank you everyone for interest and the tips on how-to,,, I’ll most assuredly by trying most of them as I go along…

    I’ll try to set up a camera Sunday for photos and a video to post to YouTube… Porridge oats has a short cook time, but want a different heat throughout the process…

    Later this summer, at 71 years old, I’ll be doing the Baker Lake to Frost River to Baker Lake loop in the BWCA, one of the toughest loops… I’d be very pleased if I could manage to take along one of my kerosene stoves, and be able to prepare my usual bush menu: tea at all hours (I never ever drink plain water), porridge oats breakfast and lunch, and frybread for summer (fish if I get lucky)…
     
  14. Haggis

    Haggis Subscriber

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  15. OMC

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    Onto the 210, ok. May be exact same maker model & design, or may differ just slightly.

    I'm otherwise occupied but checking on this one:thumbup:.
    re "...as I turn the heat down, I might also give the stove a few pumps to up the pressure"
    in other words if too much pressure loss is culprit
    of course, for your issue, simple pumping just enough might regain simmer ? :-k
    and save 00 from going from medium flame to flame out.

    Thanks for details.
    We see now the big picture.
    A trick discussed in past to increase thermal feedback is to lace a copper wire from flame down to make contact with base of rizer/tank top. (Increased thermal feedback to better maintain / self pressurize. Of course again i was unaware 00 had a "doesn't like to simmer" trait about it :-k
    ----------------------------

    the @Marc idea shines again.
    You make a point above that the oats want to stick to the bottom, a twist added to the lack of simmer issue AND

    hot spot is one issue a
    * spreader / diffuser / simmer plate resolves. *on-topic
    thx again
     
  16. Marc

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    A spacer might work too, just raise the pot sufficiently above the flame. Perhaps try some longer legs off another stove.
     
  17. Haggis

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    This Primus 210, (Optimus), has a Radius silent burner,,, and this morning turned down to a surprisingly low flame…

    FAF8E085-168A-4ACA-A171-A4641745450F.jpeg
     
  18. Haggis

    Haggis Subscriber

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    Up to week #18 now; 18 different stoves, each used for 7 days to cook up my morning porridge… I figured 7 uses at the same task would give me a clearer feel for the stove at that task…

    Not certain sure how interesting this is or will be to anyone other than me, but when I get to the end of week 26, I’ll post up my simple notes, and links to the videos I made of each them at the task… I’d be purely horrified to suggest anyone watch 26 videos of some fanatic cooking oatmeal, but there might be a stove or two, and/or a video or two worth an opinion,,, or helpful suggestion…

    This has been a hoot really, but I’ve noted there as some stoves, that while I might enjoy having them, and even enjoy using them once in the bluest of moons, but I absolutely would not want depend on them for any length of time… Just too! Too slow to light, too awkward, too tippy, just too unfriendly, (at least they’re unfriendly to me), in general…
     
  19. Majicwrench

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    Looking forward to it!
     
  20. Jaime Massang

    Jaime Massang Australia Subscriber

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    Here's a possible solution to the simmering problem ( for a little Hipolito in a stove shelter).

    I had to make a trivet for some smaller diameter utensils which didn't sit quite so securely on a tripod pot stand system.
    The trivet has a two height slot system which raises or lowers it on the pot stands by lifting and rotating (the trivet) with pliers. IMG_2237.JPG IMG_2242.jpg IMG_2233.jpg