Greetings, Mates, Just a while back, we were discussing the poor state of MSR's plastic pumps. I have had several of them go South on me, now, and no longer trust any of the older-styled pumps. Dave asked if I could post some photos of the different pump styles, so here they are. Here's a shot of four older-styled MSR plastic pumps. The two, early, yellow-bodied ones are very much like the original MSR pumps. They were better, IMHO, than the later pumps, which replaced them. They needed a bit of upkeep, and the air intake hose, which curls up from the back end of the pump body, had an annoying tendency to break off, as have both of these. The pumps with the grey/black bodies were the next in line, and I used lots of these for years, before two of them went South on me, one after the other. I won't use them any longer. The orange/grey-bodied pump is the one that suffered a catastrophic malfunction, and melted down, almost taking the stove, my brick wall, and ME with it!!! There was also an orange/blue-bodied pump, but I traded mine in, when it broke, and do not have one to show. Here's a detail shot of two of the earlier pumps. Note the small plastic tabs on each of them. This is the normal place where these pumps WILL break, eventually. Also, please note the melted down ring on the orange/grey-bodied pump. This ring is what "went pop", when it broke, and spewed lots of fuel, which ignited immediately, and spread quickly!!!! Had I not had my empty bucket on hand, to cover the whole mess and smother the fire, or had I lit this stove inside our home, I shudder to think what might have happened!!! Here is a shot of the two new MSR pumps. The top pump is for use with the Dragonfly stove, only. The bottom pump is for the X-GK's, the Whisperlite's, and all other MSR stoves. Here is a detail shot of both pumps. You can see that the infamous small plastic tabs are not longer being used! This is a vast improvement. Also, MSR addressed the plastic ring failure, like the one I recently endured, by changing that part to one of rubber, which also completely encloses the top of the fuel bottle. Again, this is another outstanding improvement. Here's a shot of the new manner of getting the pump rod, and hence the pump leather, out of the tube. You line up these slots on the pump shaft, with two milled areas inside the pump tube body, twist, then remove the whole thing! It looks like a fantastic improvement, but I won't know for sure until I get some time to do some in-depth testing. So far, I'm super impressed with these new pumps, my Friends! I have high hopes that they will finally be up to the standards set by some of the stoves with which they will work: The X-GK's and the Firefly. Yes, they will also work with the Whisperlite series of stoves, too. However, after many years of using them, I do not trust them as far as I can throw them!! All it takes is one failure, my Friends, at a very bad time, and you will feel as do I!!! You all know how my Whisperlite Internationale let us down when we were on the PCT. Had we not had a friend nearby, who loaned us his stove, we would have been in deep kimshee, Mates!!!!!! The entire Whisperlite line was designed to replace the Firefly stove. This was a solution to a non-existant problem, Mates!! The Firefly was an outstanding stove, which burned hotter than any other stove in existance, and which simmered very, very well. It also came with a proprietary windscreen that allowed this stove to work in the absolute worst weathers, and at super high elevation!!! The kiss of death? It was the loudest stove I've ever heard!!! So, the "Woods-Pussies" cried and whimpered that the Firefly was too loud, and that they didn't like the aluminum windscreen. And.....MSR caved-in, and dumped the Firefly in favor of the Whisperlite stoves. The Firefly always worked, and was very versatile. The Whisperlites are quite prone to plugging and failure, and they are not versatile!!! They burn hot, but do not simmer, at all! In fact, it's easier to simmer on an X-GK, than on a Whisperlite stove! That's my story, and I'm sticking to it, Friends!! I'll report on how the new MSR pumps seem to work, and if they are up to their first appearances, will be happy to recommend them. As for every single older MSR pump that I own: THEY ARE ALL IMMEDIATELY, AND PERMANENTLY RETIRED, NO EXCEPTIONS!!! Can't afford to either build a new house, of pay for the burn treatments, when the next one decides to break and spew gas all over it's burning stove!!!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
DOC.. your attention to detail is a thing of wonder..i can see now your interest in recreating the 1800's lifestyle..that shot of you doing the demo on "chain drive??" watches in full gear--tricorn hat and all--tells the tail..anywayyyyyy the pumps.. the pump for my GK looks like its the top yellow one--however it has an aluminum tube for the fuel line and not plastic as in your photo...older??newer?? model.. and yes the air line is busted off right where it joins the pump..i don't see anyway to remove that rivet gizmo to replace it..any ideas?? by the time i found this MSR stove/pump i was well into useing my Peak on canoe trips and the metal pipe from the pump to the stove had that "bend me break me" look to it..also the TINY "t" shaped pins on the pump looked like loosers..the sort of gear that could ride in a pack all day but would not stand up to the loading and unloading--tossing and dumping in a Duluth pack over a two week trip...i picked up a second new style pump to replace the old yellow one just the other day--after reading the pump failure story i felt better safe than sorry.. great post..THANKS
Doc, now I am afraid of using my MSR Whisperlite. I have the exact copy of the plastic pump that malfunctioned and almost took out your house. I took a look at the part that holds the fuel line insert, and it did not show any stress. But that is not really the point, is it. Who knows when it will decide to give up? And when it does, I have no way of telling what I would be doing, where I would be, in relation to the fuel bottle. Just not a comforting picture. Do you think REI would let me swap my pump with one of their new ones?
Still ain't sold one 'em yet Doc!! Good stuff and descriptions etc Thanks Keep it up!!! Don't think I'll crawl over broken glass to get a MSR !!! 8) Bruce
Morning, Dave, B2M, and Bruce, Dave, many thanks for the very kind words!! Much appreciated! Your yellow pump, with the metal fuel tube, is an earlier version of the ones I have. I seem to remember that Colin Fletcher, in his "The Complete Walker" series of books, used to rail about how those old metal tubes would leave fuel in the bottle, and not draw up the last of it to be burned. When MSR went to the plastic fuel tube, that seemed to solve that one problem. I think you did exactly the right thing, in getting one of the new heavier duty pumps for your GK. I would imagine you are safe and sound, now, and that you can use your MSR without too much concern. I like the GK very much, and think it's an outstanding stove. B2M, you have every reason to be seriously concerned about the safety of your older pump!!! The odd thing is that, when my friend who works at REI first told me about the "plastic pump issue", I was actually rather smug in my response to him. I told him that I had used my MSR stoves for many years, and had never had a problem with the pumps. Then, BIM BAM BOOM, three pumps broke, in a row, including a brand new one!!! All of these were of the older style, with the small rotating tabs on the pump body. For those that might still feel that they are "safe" using the older pumps, I wish they could have been here to see the total failure of my orange/grey-bodied pump!!! Once the ring popped off, the flames spread so quickly, that had I been in a tent, or in my house, I would have been in serious trouble!!!!!!!!!! Were I you, I would go down to REI, ASAP, and see if they will swap pumps with you, under their "100% Satisfaction Guarantee". In all actuality, unless one of the small tabs is broken on your pump, they might not swap you. MSR had a swapping promotion for a very short while, but it was under-publicised, and I just barely got in on the tail end of it. Even if they don't exchange your pump, I would recommend buying one of the new ones to replace it. Your life, the lives of your loved ones, and your house and gear, are worth far more than the measly $35 it's going to cost you to replace your older pump!! Keep the old one as a museum piece, and look on it with a peaceful heart, knowing that it cannot cause you harm!! I'm not a fan of the Whisperlite stoves, as you probably know. They sing a "one note Samba", and that's just not good enough for me. Plus, I've had plugging problems with mine, despite meticulous care. I just don't trust them anymore. Yeah, I also sort of have a "hard-on" against the little bastards for being the stoves that replaced my beloved Firefly!!! The FF is a much better stove. It's also much louder!! Bruce, no need to crawl over broken glass to get an MSR, just score an older MSR X-GK on Ebay, and call it good! Get yourself one of the new pumps, to be safe, and I think the X-GK will earn your trust, if not your love. Since you are one who likes quiet stoves, the throaty roar of an X-GK might be a little much for you!!! But, for those of us who love them, the roar of an X-GK is reassuring and soothing, especially when the temps have fallen through the floor, and the snow clouds are piling up on the next ridge!!! 8) By the way, the Firefly is louder than the X-GK. Boils water faster, too!! AND, it simmers very well!!! All in all, a much better stove than the ones that replaced it!! BOOOO, HISSSS!!!! Talk to you Guys later, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
Doc, forgot to thank you for posting this thread. It was not only imformative, but having shown exactly what kind of failure we can expect from the MSR pumps, we have a better idea of what to look for. Maybe, potentially, and theoretically, you are saving someone's hide in the future, as people continue to click on this thread!
Hey, B2M, Thanks, very much!! This is the kind of stuff that should have been prominently featured in Backpacker Magazine, but that rag long ago degenerated into little more than an advertising medium. So, just as we do with other safety issues, CCS seems the next best place to warn others about such dangers. We continue to tell Newbies NOT to burn Coleman fuel in their brass kero stoves; we warn about using too large pots that over-hang the safety valves, and cause them to blow; and now, I've warned about very possible, and highly probable, failures of older MSR plastic pumps. Just part of what goes on everyday, here at CCS!! Thanks, again, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
Hi Doc, This is a really a great piece of work. You got me thinking hard and I had to go searching for my Simmerlite, but can't find it yet. Will keep looking as now i just must see if it has the newer style pump you have described which I expect it should. Your Firefly comments also struck a note. They were unloading those on Sierra Trading post a year or two back, and I should have sprung for one but........I'm thinking: should a, would a, could a . Drat, I wonder what's on ebay. Thanks for posting this one, it's lively, and don't stop, you're an asset to the site, always with a kind word ! Regards, Doug
Morning, Gents, Thanks, Exeter Yak, for the very kind words!! This was a fun experiment for me, and it will continue as I get time to play around with it. I'll be posting most of the results in the Stove Forum, Rune, so please check there, now and then, to see what happens with my boiling, cooking, simmering tests. Thanks, again, Lads, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark P.S. I had started to strip parts off of the MSR pump that went fireball on me, to use as spares. But, I've now decided to leave it just as it is, as a reminder of this saga!!! I might even "mount" it in my stove room, just for grins!!
I bought a stove on E bay that had the red and grey pump. It was already broken when I got, it but have maybe 5 new pumps so this just sits.
