Coleman 502 hard to start

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by freediver, Sep 1, 2021.

  1. freediver

    Offline
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2006
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Northern California
    A coworker just gave me a Coleman 500 from 1963. The tank was empty and spotless inside. I put a new cap seal and pump in it. I tried to light it and it didn’t seem like fuel was getting through the manifold. I took the burner ring off and it had a wasp nest in it. I cleaned out the manifold and put it back together.

    It has been very difficult to light. It floods almost every time. I have been following the directions on the tank. I looked around on the forum and tried different suggestions including starting with 10, 30, and 50 pumps.

    I took the gen off and turned it around. It puts out a mist, but with brief periods of nothing. It kind of sputters. I tried a different gen and it didn’t start any easier.

    Are these the symptoms of a plugged pickup? If so can it be cleaned with a fuel additive or does it have to be cleaned with a pin? I would rather not fully take it apart, because of how tight the burner bowl is on the manifold.

    Once I get it lit it runs great.
    BB0F7237-231B-427E-A11D-9C1F90BFFF46.jpeg
     
  2. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    20,086
    Location:
    North Carolina
  3. hikerduane

    hikerduane Subscriber

    Online
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    9,742
    Location:
    Plumas County, CA
    Yep. Sounds like the pickup may be blocked.
    Duane
     
  4. hikerduane

    hikerduane Subscriber

    Online
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    9,742
    Location:
    Plumas County, CA
    Bunsen still obstructed with spider web or remnants of the wasp nest? Run some frayed speaker wire thru it all. I had to scrape a mud dauber nest out of a mil spec lantern and my old Coleman 454.
    Duane
     
  5. cottage hill bill

    cottage hill bill SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,474
    I would do as suggested and clean the bunsen with a frayed wire or bottle brush. If that doesn't fix it pull the pickup from the fount and clean it. Are you using the light-burn lever per the directions?
     
  6. freediver

    Offline
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2006
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Northern California
    Yup you are right. It is a 502 not 500 I don’t know where I put my brain today.
    I wrecked my last 502 trying to get the burner off the manifold so I am going to try cleaning the manifold again as you suggested.


    I tried it with the lever away from the stove as written on the fount and I tried the lever straight down. It didn’t seem to make a difference. The cleaning needle is functioning properly.
     
  7. cottage hill bill

    cottage hill bill SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,474
    This 3-jawed oil filter wrench is the best tool I know for removing the burner from a 502. Under $10 at most auto parts stores.
    502 wrench.jpg
     
  8. freediver

    Offline
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2006
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Northern California
    That is what I was using when I wrecked my last 502. I crushed the burner bowl and broke the manifold. It was my fault. I tried to force it when I should have used more patience, heat and penetrating oil.

    Well the good news is that after cleaning out the manifold a bit more this stove starts up easy. It chugs a few times, but after 10-30 seconds it is running along fine. I hope that is all it takes. Thanks for the help.
     
  9. Majicwrench

    Majicwrench Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    Messages:
    2,297
    If it runs well once warmed up, is not something plugging bunsen, although a good cleaning is always a good idea.

    When you start it with lever away from stove, are you leaving lever in that position for 20 seconds or so?

    If you are following instructions and it is flooding when starting, need to pull f/a tube.
     
  10. freediver

    Offline
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2006
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Northern California
    I was leaving it pointed away from the stove for 1-2 min before regulating the flame.

    This is how it starts now. Does this look normal for these stoves? This is how it has been lighting since I cleaned out the manifold. I think I have lit it cold about 6 times now with out it flooding.


    If I put a match to the burner and crack the valve open a 1/8 turn the flame will go out as soon as I take the match away. But if I leave the match next to the burner for 5 to 10 seconds the flame stove settles down and stays lit. This may have been the reason it was flooding.
     
  11. Murph

    Murph United States Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,557
    Location:
    Milwaukee WI, USA
    First thing, the lever only cleans the jet orfice and controls the flame intensity. The shut off valve is what's used for lighting, Open it a quarter turn to light, and full throttle to operate!
     
  12. Majicwrench

    Majicwrench Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    Messages:
    2,297
    @Murph is right, of course.

    You need to follow directions, which say to have a match at burner before opening valve, and opening valve 1/4 turn. Then see what happens.
     
  13. Murph

    Murph United States Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,557
    Location:
    Milwaukee WI, USA
    One problem with the 502 is that it needs air space over the fuel to generate the fuel/air blend for lighting and pre-heating. Fill the fount with too much fuel, and it's a bugger to light.

    I've intentionally overfilled my 502's to carry more fuel in the field, but then I have to light them the "British way". Use the dished center of the burner as a pre-heat cup, fill it with alcohol (or CF, for that matter), and light it. Let the generator warm up, and THEN open the fuel feed to start things. It also helps in sub-zero temps in winter, when the arctic winds blow in from Canada to visit here!!!

    P.S. - it's also the way to burn kerosene or diesel fuel in a 502. Ask me how I know.

    Murph
     
  14. freediver

    Offline
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2006
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Northern California
    I was using an 1/8 of a turn because 1/4 turn would snuff out the match. I am pretty sure that was happening because I was pumping up the stove too much. The instructions on the tank doesn't list the number of pumps to start out with. I have since found the pamphlet online that goes with the stove. It says 20-30 pumps. If I do that I can turn the valve 1/4 turn and it doesn't snuff out the match.

    However the stove still doesn't stay lit unless I keep the match there until it burns down to my fingers. Which I am wondering is that normal for these stoves. I imagine it is not.

    The stove is not over filled.
     
  15. freediver

    Offline
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2006
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Northern California
    I swapped generators and it seems a bit less fussy. I will clean this stoves original generator again and see it that helps.
     
  16. hikerduane

    hikerduane Subscriber

    Online
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    9,742
    Location:
    Plumas County, CA
    I have a couple gas stoves that take a couple tries to light, blowing out the match too like you describe. One is a Coleman 530, sold my 502.
    Duane
     
  17. HunterStovie

    HunterStovie United States Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2015
    Messages:
    884
    Location:
    Town of Parker, Colorado, USA
    @freediver ,

    I have a couple 502's and each one has it's own personality. That being said following the directions has worked in most cases. The amount of initial pumps depends on the amount of fuel in the tank, more fuel less pumps. I normally use a barbecue lighter instead of matches to give me more reach. I also don't turn on the lighter until I can hear the stove gurgling, meaning it's fuel and air. If all you hear is hissing it's only air. If it's seems to want to flood you can rotate the cleaning leaver slightly to reduce the amount of fuel /air getting into the manifold and burner. To me your initial video looked normal. Once the stove gets going I start slowly adding pumps until the flame looks normal and starts to settle down and then I fully open the valve.