1939? MONITOR NO 2 PICNIC STOVE

Discussion in 'Monitor' started by kaw550red, Dec 11, 2009.

  1. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    Monitor introduced this 1.5 pint paraffin stove in 1939 which was unfortunate as Great Britain declared war on Germany in the same year so the stove was dropped either in 1939 or early 1940. After WW2 there was a severe shortage of steel so the model was never reintroduced.

    The stove had a non return valve under the burner which allowed the stove to be carried with fuel in it without spilling. This was given a provisional no of 32607.

    1260558592-Mon_2_stove_opt.jpg 1260558632-Nonspillvalve_opt.jpg 1260558608-Monitor_pat_opt.jpg 1260558621-Monitor2openjpg_opt.jpg 1260558574-Mon_2_case_inside_opt.jpg 1260558555-Mon_2_case_closed_opt.jpg

    Regards Bryan
     
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  2. parramethtrol

    parramethtrol Subscriber

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    Hi Bryan
    she's a cracker ! were any other stoves made with the burner nrv?
    and should i be keeping my eyes peeled for her or is she one of your keepers ?

    ATB Bill
     
  3. nagant

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    Beautiful stove and pictures Bryan! that's a well thought out design, rugged looking and simple. surprised that nrv didn't show up more.
     
  4. Spiritburner

    Spiritburner Admin SotM Winner Subscriber

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    If I'm right I bought that off Bryan on ebay!
     
  5. rik_uk3

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    Wonderful Bryan, lucky bugger Ross.
     
  6. mr optimus

    mr optimus Subscriber

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    very nice stove the monitor were one of the best british manufactures of stoves and lamps.
    Allso monitor had some good patents i am sure my monitor regal has a non return valve under the burner
     
  7. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    Hi All

    Ross you are right. If I remember rightly you have a photo of this and the No 1 cabinet stove.

    I have been going through my sales records and looking at the website to see where there are gaps and this one was no shown

    To the Rest of You. I think that the NRV must have been used on other stoves because I found a complete burner and valve in my junk but I have no idea where they came from.

    1939 was a funny year as evacuations of children from industrial areas occurred after war was declared. The idea was to avoid them being blown up or gassed. My older brother was evacuated for what is probably the shortest period on record. Neither my sister or I were evacuated but I do not know why. When the evacuees got to their destination billeting officers placed them with families and the families had no choice but to take them irrespective whether they had vacant accommodation or not. My mother found out that my twelve year old brother was sharing a bed with a 13 year old girl! She seemed to think that he was in less danger of being gassed or bombed than if he was evacuated so brought him home after 3 days!

    Regards Bryan
     
  8. lanevitt

    lanevitt Subscriber

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    Hello Bryan..

    So is my Monitor Lizzard a home cobbled copy of your example ?

    1260572333-monstove_1_opt.jpg
     
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  9. Spiritburner

    Spiritburner Admin SotM Winner Subscriber

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  10. lanevitt

    lanevitt Subscriber

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    Hi, Its bang on the same size tank as a 96.

    The spirit cup is from a Burmos and the burner has a taper on the male thread, but no markings other than a "&" on the hex flat.

    1260573931-mon_burn_1_opt.jpg
     
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  11. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    Hi Andrew

    You have got a 1/2 pint Monitor picnic stove with a 2 pint burner adapted to fit the stove. Unfortunately whoever did the conversion did not understand stove design. The conversion is not safe so I would strongly suggest that you do not use it.

    1260617614-Rising_tubes_opt.jpg

    This photo shows a 2 pint burner, the appropriate tank connection, a standard 2 pint rising tube, and one of my early special 96 rising tubes.

    The rising tube is not on a stove for decorative purposes. It is there to provide space between the burner and the stove tank to reduce the amount of heat absorbed by the tank when a pan is on the stove and to reduce the amount of heat travelling to the tank through the rising tube. The height of the rising tube and the surface area of it protects the tank from overheating. If you look at the photo you will see that it would be possible to half the height of the standard rising tube. Taken to its logical conclusion you could omit the rising tube and form a tank connection that took the end of the burner. However this is not done because the tank connection is soldered to the tank both to fix it and to seal the joint. Omitting the rising tube would allow sufficient heat to get to the solder to melt it as solder has a relatively low melting point.

    On your photo there is what appears to be solder just in front of the spirit cup and I suspect that the melting problem has already been experienced on that stove.

    The alteration has been done to upgrade the stove performance in the Picnic case. However the case would have had to be altered to take the modified stove. There is a heat shelf in the standard case and a clip to retain a standard Picnic stove in place. This shelf and clip originally fitted around the short rising tube on the stove. The modified stove has a spirit cup covering the rising tube so the case would have had to be cut to fit around the spirit cup. The heat shelf may have provided some protection to the soldered joint however a 2 pint burner produces twice the heat of a 96 and that heat is produced in a confined space so I think that there would be problems with the soldered joint even within the case.

    The Picnic stoves produced after WW2 had aluminium cases because steel was in very short supply after the war. During the war aluminium had been produced in large quantities for war plane production. When the war finished there was an excess capacity of aluminium production so it was used in place of steel for the Picnic cases and for the legs of RM, Thermador and Veritas 1 pint stoves. It was also used for at least one road bridge and one brand of motorcycle frame.

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news

    Regards Bryan
     
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  12. lanevitt

    lanevitt Subscriber

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    Hello Bryan

    How can what you have just written be bad news.
    I see it as sound, solid and safe advise. Now bad news would be me writing to tell you i caught the barn on fire after lighting up my Monitor lizard stove. I was in great doubt as to its future as a fully operating stove, set aside all the good technical evidence you have stated. Introducing a tapered male threaded burner into a straight cut female tank connection, that is fully tightened after a 270 degree turn, is in my mind wrong. The little devil will be put to one side as a donor stove.

    1260635118-mon_tank_1_opt.jpg
     
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  13. ChrisQ

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    The Monitor Regal definitely had a NRV below the burner so it could be transported without fuel spillage ( Fixed leg stove, no provision to remove burner and replace with transit cap )

    off topic

    Bryan
    The motorcycle frame would have been Greeves ?
    Where is the road bridge ??
     
  14. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    Hi Andrew

    I would keep the stove as a curiosity. They are just as interesting as perfect stoves.No other collector will have one like it.

    Many of the stoves that I collected were collected solely because I thought that they were poorly designed.

    Chris you are right about the Greeves. Manufacturing firms were limited to the amount of steel that they they got just before the war. I cannot remember whether Greeves started after the war or whether they had just started before the war but in any case they were not getting enough steel to make motorbikes so made aluminium frames to eke the steel out.

    The bridge is in the South Docks in Sunderland. I think that it was built in 1948 and it was claimed to be the first aluminium road bridge in the world. I never heard of another so it may have been the only one built. You would not recognise it as being made out of aluminium as it is painted over to protect it from the sea air. It is fairly short as it only crosses a dock

    Monitor also had patent number 521020 applied for in 1938. That was for a non return valve in a half pint tank which meant that it could be carried without dismantling and no fuel could leak out. However that valve only seems to have been used for a short time as I have not seen any stoves with a functioning valve in them although I think that I have seen them missing the piston and spring

    Regards Bryan
     
  15. Ian Bingham

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  16. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    Hi Ian

    The spring forces the piston and seal downwards towards the tank inside. This seals the fuel in the tank. The only way that fuel can come out of the tank through the burner is if the tank is pressurised thus permanently opening the valve while under pressure. The valve shuts as soon as the air is released from the tank.

    I should think that the spring was strong enough to resist rises in pressure caused by temperature increases after the air had been released from the tank

    Regards Bryan