Advice on kerosene for a Trangia cook set

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by offgrid, Nov 9, 2019.

  1. offgrid Australia

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    I have been reading, but haven't seen anything conclusive yet.

    I'm happy with alcohol, but there may be times I need to burn something else. Kerosene appears to have much to recommend it, but I wouldn't mind being able to use White Gas, LPG, etc, since I'm thinking of investing in something.

    I note the Trangia X2 burner is deliberately de-tuned to avoid overheating the aluminum windscreen and pots - I'd like to hear about that aspect of any recommendation.

    I can buy an X2, I can buy something else and an adapter. I won't use it often, I'll use alcohol mostly.

    What would be a good investment?

    I have a 25 all HA and a 27 Titanium with UL windscreens.

    All the discussion will be of interest, and thanks for actionable opinions, too.
     
  2. pyro_P Australia

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    G'day mate, just up the road from you.
    Not sure of what you are trying to achieve here, as with titanium pots/pans, they put a different dimension on burning food, even with meths. White spirits (shellite) is a little worse, so I'd say kero, if not monitored, will turn tonights tea into a uneatable cremation.
    Curious on other opinions. Considered propane?
     
  3. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr Subscriber

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    I really like the early Nova with the adapter to fit in the Trangia. Kerosene runs well in that.

    Welcome to CCS.
     
  4. Odd

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    I'd most definitely recommend You get an "Optimus Polaris Optifuel"
    complete with a Bernie Dawg Polardawg2 silent burner cap and a Trangia
    X2-type holder/adapter (Trangia part no 788205). That combination will
    take care of every need You have - or will have in the future…
    You'll never look back.
    /Odd
     
  5. offgrid Australia

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    I'm expecting to live off-grid in the future. I'm a few years off my age pension now. Just now I have the means to get durable goods to make my life easier, and I'm looking into possibilities, trying things. I have a small wood burner, I have some alcohol stoves. Something that burns alternatives might be useful later on, maybe not, but maybe so, and I'm looking at what can make that possible, while burdening myself as little as I can with bulk. The Trangia system works well, is compact - a solution that works with that seems my best bet.

    Most of the options I'm reading people use, like the X2 itself, burn propane unless I'm misunderstanding. I don't like the small backpacking cartridges, as it seems to me they create much waste, but they are an option with many of the stoves including several others have already recommended in this thread - so I get that for free.

    The X2 would be an obvious solution. OTOH, if I begin with a stand-alone stove, I have the parts to put it back together and use with other pots. Kerosene seems the best all-round petroleum fuel for off-grid.

    I'll be happy to never need anything but wood and solar in my later years, but now is the time to work out my options. I can try some camping to learn about using the equipment I'm exploring.

    I may not achieve my goals, but they are useful guidelines to me:
    1) I can fit all I own on a bicycle plus trailer.
    2) I can largely rely on natural sources - I do expect to remain in community, people working together are far more able than anyone alone. But I mean I'm trying to avoid anything that requires wasteful industry.
    3) It works, it doesn't rust, it will last the rest of my life, I can maintain it - again without specialized industry.

    And, by the way, I have worked out systems to allow me to fry eggs in my Trangia and Toaks titanium pans over alcohol without much fear of burning. The problem seems to be that titanium does not conduct heat well. The HA aluminum (I was born overseas) conducts heat well and isn't a problem, but I have the titanium, and it's more durable. I've seen some apocryphal reference to titanium pots for the 25, but haven't actually found any yet. Happy to hear if anyone knows.
     
  6. Staffan Rönn

    Staffan Rönn SotM Winner Subscriber

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    An alternative to titanium which does have a lousy heat conductivity is the Trangia Duossal pots and pans. It's a laminate of aluminum ;) on the outside for heat conductivity and stainless steel on the inside for durability and scratch resistance. A bit pricy, but probably the versatility and durability you are looking for. I have not used them myself, but only heard good comments from users so far.

    Best wishes for your mission!
     
  7. Simes

    Simes Subscriber

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    An admirable challenge, but you must get a Brompton.

    Meet the man who cycled the world for 50 years

    If I was attempting this I would build up in stages till you have the required kit you'll personally feel comfortable with and know inside out. One size doesnt fit all in this instance.

    3 fuel options sounds reasonable, ethanol is easy and a trangia kit as you know it is easy. A small wood stove if you intend on using found fuel, there are plenty of options around.

    For kerosene my.personal preference would be a stove designed for the purpose rather than anything fancy multifuel for year on yeat dependability.

    You van always get a micro gas burner that'll also work as an emergency back up if you want to limit canister usage.

    Have a look at what world cycling people have carried, it'll certainly not entail huge cooking options even if away from 'civilisation for many days.

    Just a few thoughts from a cycle camper who was never happy with the kit I carried even after several years of regular trips.

    You could cycle down to @pyro_P and live in his garden for six months and see how you get on. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  8. offgrid Australia

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    I have a Tern. I'm considering whether a tadpole trike would be better. I will age for as long as I live - I can't fall off a trike, so that might be the better investment.

    But about those stoves... ?
     
  9. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr Subscriber

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    I do not consider the canister fuel as off-grid.
     
  10. offgrid Australia

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    I have a Trail Designs Ti-Tri set which works with ethanol, hexamine, and wood. The cone sized for the Toaks 1.3 liter pot also works well with one of the Trangia 27 pots, and acceptably with the other (although that's not of great need). And it also fits a 14cm Zebra billy pot, although it's not a tight fit. For a wood fire, it should work.

    After reading this report on indoor alcohol fireplaces and wood stoves (Ethanol fireplaces: the underestimated risk - Research News September 2014 - Topic 2), I'm considering getting one of the very portable titanium wood stoves, such as the Winnerwell Fastfold or similar.

    Wood is widely available, especially off-grid, and solar can be as well (climate-dependent). Alcohol, hexamine, petroleum are society dependent and may or may not be reliable - but if it's not too much of an investment, and not too much bulk, I'm open to having a way to use them. I'm already set for alcohol and hexamine - now I'm looking at the unlikely chance I may want to burn kerosene or gasoline or butane. These are all very dependent - a substantial infrastructure must be happening for them to be readily available. There isn't a lot of infrastructure in say, backwoods Pakistan, where kerosene is available, but there's quite a bit of infrastructure somewhere in order for there to be kerosene in backwoods Pakistan.

    PG&E is turning off the electricity to cities in Northern California now because they haven't invested in their infrastructure and can't guarantee not to start fires. Major cities like Oakland and Berkeley. This happened a few weeks ago. It will continue.

    Being able to burn petroleum fuels is not an important goal for me - but as long as I am still earning and can consider options, I'm considering what would be the minimum to add to what I have in case I end up in a situation where burning petroleum fuels would be useful. Serious altitude camping? A friend who stores kerosene? Cooking for dozens of people who evacuated from a wild fire? Who knows? After discussion, my solution may be to just forget about it.

    But I'll ask, so I might learn.

    Even without any negative futures, being able to live off-grid means:
    1) I can live somewhere pretty (if you like nature).
    2) I can live somewhere peaceful (people usually can't make so much noise without electricity).
    3) I can live somewhere cheap.
     
  11. ally

    ally Subscriber

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    obviously not a classic camp tove but have a look at 'the folding firebox', I have only, extremely robust twig stove that can take trangia burner and others

    lots of youtube videos of it's use, well thought out bit of kit and should last a lifetime

    :)

    Firebox Stove
     
  12. Afterburner

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    In my opinion KAP Arctic would be best investment for Trangia to burn kerosene: KAP

    With Optimus Trangia Adapter: https://www.optimusstoves.com/us/us/111-8016303-optimus-trangia-adapter you can install Optimus Nova (Swedish and later versions) and Optimus Nova+ to Trangia. It also works for installing Primus Optifuel, Omnifuel, Multifuel and Varifuel to Trangia.
     
  13. Lennart F Sweden

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    The X2 is still delivering a lot more power than the spirit burner even if you would decide to burn diesel/kerosene through the small jet intended for LPG/white gas - and you can buy the spares kit for Primus Omnifuel that contains larger jets making it a real roarer - it happily burns every petroleum fuel from butane/propane to diesel and I assume but have not proved that it would work well with light heating oil.
    It fits very well in every Trangia made for gas burners(last 30+ years 25 and 27) and it tends to burn with partly yellow flames at high power - It is very fuel versatile and a quite simple and sturdy design but if you want easy fine tuning of flame you should go for the burner valve siblings Nova or Omnifuel with the Trangia "Nova adapter" - complete it with a set of international "local to Lindal valve" canister adapters and you could virtually use it for any camping fuel out there - you are of course keeping the spirit burner and a Trangia solid/gel fuel burner(cheap tin cup) for solid fuel tablets and burning paste.
     
  14. Retro Camper

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    @offgrid; if you like burning meths then how about getting an adapter to mount an Optimus 111T (triple fuel) burner in your Trangia? This way you can burn meths under pressure; faster acting than your standard Trangia burner but not so powerful that you will be burning your titanium pans. I had this set up once but regretfully sold it on. I got the adapter from Qvist, a supplier in Holland. See this link for what it is all about: Ultima Naltio It is very similar to the KAP Arctic mentioned earlier.
     
  15. Ed Winskill

    Ed Winskill United States Subscriber

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    Like much else in human life.
     
  16. Harder D. Soerensen

    Harder D. Soerensen Denmark Subscriber

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    Another direction -
    What about an Optimus 81 Trapper?
    It runs on meth - yes - but it has a considerable larger tank capacity - and
    as opposed to the Trangia Meth burner - this one runs hotter and can be adjusted from full to simmer.
    If I am going on a small trip where I can foresee cooking rice -a pot stew or similar - I like the Trapper. Its easy maintainable (no jets or needles or valves or such)
     
  17. snwcmpr

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    One can make alcohol relatively safely.
     
  18. offgrid Australia

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    I looked this up. It appears to be an alcohol stove which has good adjustment and simmering ability.

    It burns one fuel, it doesn't burn wood. I forecast that my most used fuel sources will be either solar or wood. As long as alcohol, hexamine, and petroleum are easily available they are convenient, but I am focusing on solutions that don't require that.
     
  19. Ed Winskill

    Ed Winskill United States Subscriber

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    Well, one can't argue with that part. The portable ones that do burn wood seem not to burn other fuels, but I have not delved deeply into that enough to really know.
    I do have a wood stove for our big outfitter's tent, but that's another matter.
     
  20. offgrid Australia

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    This page: Optimus Stoves
    ... suggests the Optimus 111C Hiker burns alcohol as well as kerosene, etc.

    What differs between a 'C' and the 'T' mentioned above? (Yes, I can google, but that won't tell me all your experience can.)