After Burner

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by mharron, Nov 7, 2015.

  1. mharron

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    image.jpeg Hi all, I got hold of these two today. Primus No0 and No5. Not 100% sure on dates as can't find markings but know somewhere in the early 1900-1930's. So what I'm not sure on are the burners and if they are original to the stoves, unfortunately the burners aren't complete. Being as old as they are, how rare are these burners? Looking at the other No0's in the gallery, they don't have the silent burner like this, so I'm guessing this was added sometime later??? Was this style burner available as an option for a short duration?

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. Wim

    Wim Subscriber

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    Hi, the one on the right has the priming tray in the low position, like my pre-1911 N°5. Later stoves have the tray straight under the burner. For some time, both options were available. The one on the left might be a tad younger, but it still has the old style burner (you can use a later inner cap, no problem as they did not change much in shape). Indeed the N°1 left the factory with a roarer burner, which was replaced for whatever reason (noise indoors?). Try to carefully clean the bottom of the fount and see if there is a letter in the circle with the text. No letter means pre-1911. Can you tell us which of the 2 stoves is the N°1?
    Congrats with your find, these are getting rather rare! I'd like to find a couple more for my Living History cooking.

    Best regards,

    Wim
     
  3. igh371

    igh371 SotM Winner Subscriber

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    The form of the legs indicates both stoves to be pre-1911. The original burners which you have are much less common to find still in place. The larger (No.5) stove even has its top cap which is considerably less frequently still present. All the No.5 will need is a standard pattern No.5 inner cap and it should be fully up and running after the usual servicing of seals, jet etc. An excellent find.

    The '0' will be a little trickier because it will need one of the hard to find, smaller, No.4 size inner caps and a top cap fabricated by cutting up a suitable size ordinary modern silent burner outer cap. But it will be worth it because those early type smaller silent burners are much rarer even than the No.5 size.

    There is a good discussion about fettling this type of early silent burner started by Tony Press and with lots of useful links here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2015
  4. threedots New Zealand

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    Hello mharron. If you look at the bottom of the legs you will notice that they have no feet 'bulbs' - The earlier stoves were made like that until about 1907 is the latest the catalogues on this site shows them. I would place the age of your 2 stoves to be circa approximately 1898 - 1907. The pumps on these stoves are also a very early type. Good score and well worth hanging on to them. Cheers, John
     
  5. threedots New Zealand

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    By the way; The leather pump cups have to be made from a thinner leather as the standard type are a very tight fit unless the brass bucket under the main brass piston is removed(don't loose it) to give a looser fit. Cheers, John
     
  6. mharron

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    Thanks John, and thanks everyone. I'll be giving them a good clean up in the morning to see what else I can discover, particularly about the burners. Thanks for the links to the other threads as well, there were other thread links in there about replacement caps that were made (some years ago, mind) I'm hoping the same person is willing to make more that would suit the smaller burner. I'm looking forward to trying to get these up and going again. I think I may have a bit of work ahead of me. I'm glad the outer ring is in good shape. I did notice the 5 had three hole version and the 0 is a four hole version. Has this got something to do with just a transition in time with improvements or the fact they are two different sizes?
     
  7. mharron

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    Here's a few shots of the burner from the No0 stove. It did have a stamping. It looks like either an R or B, more like an R. Does this correspond to the dating chart or is it different on burners? Burner is in excellent shape. image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
    If the stove is indeed pre 1911, then I guessing the burner was added a few years later. Now all I need to find is hens teeth to complete the burner.

    The burner on the No5 was also stamped what looks like a lower case h but not too sure. I thought they used capitals for stamping. I also found a inner cap in my box of spares so this burner is now complete
     
  8. mharron

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    image.jpeg No5 burner stamping
     
  9. mharron

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    The No0 has had a few repairs done, mainly to the legs( to be expected I guess to something 100 years old) one of the legs is not original ☹️ But adds to the working history of the stove. Unfortunately it's a little large and cover over the burner slightly which makes it hard to remove. A few extra photos includes the pump.
    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
    Original leg with nice little detailed bend over the bottom of the tank image.jpeg
    Bit of corrosion on the pot stand, contemplating on what I will do here.
     
  10. threedots New Zealand

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    Hello mharron.
    Both stoves are definitely pre 1911.
    The next models that come after yours that are also pre 1911, have the 'Bulb' feet at the bottom of the legs. When that feature was added to the legs I don't know as there aren't any catalogues that come after 1907 and before 1911 shown yet that could give you a clue.

    That burner from the Nr: 0 does look original and in great shape. A treasure in itself.
    It would be great if you could obtain the parts to get it going again. There may be a member here that could have those parts and may be willing to trade. Who knows.

    Does the jet have little vertical lines impressed at the top sides? If so it will be a hard to get one as they are not too common these days.
    If it is, it will have a smaller aperture that is designed for those smaller burners.

    I wouldn't worry too much about the corrosion of the pot support legs as you can still fit a pot trivet easily if your wish.

    Any excess solder can usually be sweated with some heat and brushed away quickly as soon as it melts. Just be careful not to upset any other soldered areas with excess heat.
    Different solders come with variable melt temperatures so you can use a low melting solder for repairs if you might accidentally upset a soldered joint nearby.

    Some collectors prefer to leave these old stoves with the original patina but if work needs to be done to them the patina will usually be ruined anyway so personally I would not hesitate to clean them up. Brings out the detail as well.

    Good luck.
    Cheers, John
     
  11. mharron

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    Thanks John, great to know. I haven't a lot of experience soldering so I think I will play around with a few donor tanks first and experiment a bit. I like original patina but the tank has green corrosion in places so I will likely clean it up a lot more than it is currently but will leave the burner as it is. If I can't get the hang of the soldering I may consider handing over to someone with more skill than I.

    Couldn't see the lines on the jet so more than likely were changed at some stage.

    One thing is for sure, I'm glad I got these before the person I got them off put them on Trade Me.... a Korean friend of mine wants them also, but these will not be for sale as I may never come across another like it in my time and he just on-sells back in Korea!!!

    Cheers
    Mike
     
  12. threedots New Zealand

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    Cheers Mike.
    The leather pump cups may be recoverable if you treat them with a good oil. I have three of these stoves(#5's), 2 complete and running well.
    The other is original except for the burner which is about 90 years old. I had to repair the burner as it had suffered under burn by the looks of it. Check out this post - https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/simple-jig-for-reshaping-a-silent-burner-skirt.25343/.
    I also had to re-solder the tank filler tube as it had a knock near it and it had a slow leak there.

    Thankfully someone had cleaned up the stove in the past so I left it that way.

    If you do de-solder any part, it pays to keep it dirty until you have done the job. The excess solder will not stick to any part of the tank and more importantly any of the script if it is dirty.
    Make sure anything you do re-solder is thoroughly cleaned and treated with flux before you try to resolder. It makes the job a lot easier and less prone to failure.

    Cheers, John
     
  13. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @mharron

    Your burners look in good condition. Keep in touch and I will let you know how my project on the same burners is going.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  14. mharron

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    Will do, look forward to see the final outcome
     
  15. mharron

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    Thanks for the tips John, does it matter what type of soft solder I use, resin core etc, %of tin and lead

    Cheers
     
  16. threedots New Zealand

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    Hello Mike.
    I have resin cored solders as well as solders without. Lead based(toxic fumes) and unleaded type. Electrical and modellers. Thin stuff.
    I prefer to use the lead type over the unleaded for ease of application(less heat and better flow) and depending on the job. I try to use the hardest first then work away in stages to the softer type. Example - you can use the softer solder next to the harder solder as the heat required to melt the soft solder won't melt the harder solder next to it.

    I'll check exactly what I have and their make up and get back to you.
    Cheers, John
     
  17. threedots New Zealand

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    Hello Mike.
    I have lead based solder in wire form(0.8 dia) that is resin cored. 60/40(Tin/ Lead). Melts at approximately 188 degrees celcius. Soft.
    This is the one I use for general repairs.

    The other one I have is lead free in wire form(1mm dia) also resin cored flux. 99.3/0.7(Tin/Copper). Melts at approximately 227 degrees celcius. Harder and harder to use but makes a good secure fitting.

    This one I use for applications that require fittings that are more prone to stress. I have used it for refitting some loose burner riser fittings but the areas nearby need a lot of cooling material(wet cloths) to prevent any soft solders nearby from melting.

    Both are sometimes used in conjunction with a liquid flux to make sure that any hard to get at areas(usually inside a tank) get a good clean joint as the resin cored flux spreads only on a surface until it is burned off and that may not be satisfactory for a good joint.

    I use small dia wire solder as it doesn't take long to melt compared to a thicker form such as solder rods for example and it is easier to get into tight areas, leaving less to clean up later.

    I also have another low melt solder(melts at 100 degress celcius) in small flat lengths(approx 3mm wide by 1-1.5 mm thick). A Cadmium free, Tin/Lead/Bismuth Solder that I have used with a liquid flux to solder cracks from inside a tank or in one case inside an old brass alcohol bottle.

    The tank is usually cleaned inside with a mild acidic acid such as citrus acid first to give a mild cleanup first, flushed, dried, then a limited amount but an adiquate amount of liquid flux is introduced in the area as well as small pieces of the solder(gravity is your friend) to be heated from the outside of the tank(using a small butane torch) until it melts successfully inside.

    In all cases I later wash the article in hot soapy water, dry and introduce a thin oil to neutralise any remaining acid to prevent it corroding the soldered article from further corroding later.
    Works for me.

    All of these solder types are usually available on Trade Me.

    Hope this helps.
    Cheers, John
     
  18. mharron

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    Thank John much appreciated. Lots of good info and tips. I do have a tank that has two cracks that I would like to get repaired but may be beyond my current skill set. Would you be interested in having a look at it?