Aladdin 1944 MOD 1942 Stove Repair (Hopefully)

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by pipenfly, Feb 22, 2020.

  1. pipenfly

    pipenfly Subscriber

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    Here is a full picture of what the stove looks like at the moment
    P_20200222_135107_vHDR_Auto~2.jpg

    Here is the stamp located on the burner
    P_20200222_134659_SRES~2.jpg

    In my small bit of research, I thought the best way to progress with this stove would be to see if it creates pressure in the tank. It does not.
    I unscrewed the pump mechanism from the tank and the first thing I noticed was the gasket that holds between the pump and the fuel tank is dried and broken.
    Looking further into the pump I found extra pips that, in my inexperienced eyes, are dry and brittle. Also, the leather pump cup is quite dry.
    Here is a shot of the pump and all its innards.
    P_20200222_062222_vHDR_Auto~3.jpg
    For now, I have some alcohol in the tank and I fashioned a make shift cap from a piece of plastic bag, a couple of neoprene washers and the screw on cap. I'm hoping the alcohol will dissolve any varnish left by the old fuel.
    I am also slowly feeding the leather pump cup with neatsfoot oil because it is dry and brittle. I'm hoping it might come back into shape and might be useable as a spare. I do have a new leather pump cup coming as well.

    This thing looks as if it's been used and then sitting for some time. I'd like to start by getting things nice and tidy as I possibly can.

    I ordered a couple of M-1942 stove pump washer kits from Fettlebox with graphite tape for valve packing. I'm hoping that my valve packing is fine as is. From what I've read, if the packing has to be repaired, that particular repair can be a weak point in the stove.

    I suppose I will continue to clean the fuel tank with alcohol and leave everything else as is until the washer kit gets here.

    The thing that has me kind of worried is this part I found in the pump
    P_20200222_154429_vHDR_Auto~2.jpg
    I'm not sure what to call it. Is this a generator? It looks like it has a graphite bushing around it that is crumbling. The black specks in the white box are what I believe to be extra pips (also look as if they are made of graphite). Are these all extra parts or do they function somehow within the pump?

    Is there anything else (cleaning or checking) I can be doing now while I am waiting for parts?
    I was thinking I could clean the burner top with some throttle body cleaner. That stuff rips through caked on soot fairly easily
    P_20200222_135159_vHDR_Auto~2.jpg

    Sorry for all the questions and my ineptitude at naming the correct parts and their functions.
    This is my first camp stove and I'd very much like to learn about and get some use out of it. I have a feeling this won't be my first and last stove. I repair/restore old tobacco pipes as a hobby. This small scale of careful repair and detail is what love to do. When I came across this forum and looked into it, I knew this was the right place for me by all the detail and care you folks put into your stoves.

    Thanks again!
     
  2. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    That’s the generator and the substance parked in it - unintentionally I expect, it probably got jammed in there in transit - looks like graphite tape. The ‘pips’ may resemble graphite because they’re black, hard and brittle but will be age-hardened rubber.
     
  3. cottage hill bill

    cottage hill bill Subscriber

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    The gob at the end of the generator is indeed graphite, just not ribbon. It's the spare packing that came with the stove. You will need to replace all the rubber bits, gaskets and pips. The spares have been there since WWII and are of no use. You may not have to replace the packing. You can probably use the pieces from the spare plus the existing packing. Here is a thread I did on a different kind of packing but the technique applies.

    https://www.colemancollectorsforum....aner-9468552?pid=1284415058&highlight=packing

    Alcohol may not be the best solvent if gasoline was used and left varnish behind. Acetone or carburetor cleaner may be more successful.

    Best of luck with it, they are great little stoves.
     
  4. Majicwrench

    Majicwrench Subscriber

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    There is not much to these other than the pump and it's parts. Inside the generator is a screen mesh, that needs to be well cleaned, Carb cleaner works well, pull jet and piss down thru generator. Make sure jet is clean too, clean top,clean inside on downstream side, prick it well before putting back on.
     
  5. pipenfly

    pipenfly Subscriber

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    Thanks very much for all the great info. I will remember that valve packing trick if the need arises.
    So far, I switched over to carb cleaner for the fuel tank. I shot a bunch down into the tank through the generator that came attached to the stove. The extra generator was pretty well used too. I cleaned the extra one up as well as I could. I hope this will take care of the cleaning and I can just change all the seals when they get here.
    After I saw the Old Coleman Parts website I picked up an M-1950 rebuild kit from them. I'm sure it will get to me before the Fettlebox order. I figure I can never have to many extra parts laying around. If I can mix and match parts maybe I can compare and see what works best. I like having options.
    I will keep you all posted.
    Many thanks!
     
  6. Majicwrench

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    Flushing generator down into tank probably not best approach, now just rinse out your tank well as it is full of gunk from generator.
     
  7. pipenfly

    pipenfly Subscriber

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    @Majicwrench
    Thanks for chiming in on this. I flushed it down the generator because I was trying to keep the stove sealed. I thought it would be a good idea to keep it in tact as possible. I do prefer a more thorough approach, which brings me to a question before proceeding to pull off the generator... Is there a gasket or some type of packing material in between the generator and the rest of the stove? It looks like there is a metal to metal connection between the generator and the part that it is mated to (fuel cup?) If I pull it off, it will probably be the first time in decades that it has been apart. How likely is it that connection will fail if it has been pulled apart after so long?
    I might be over thinking this but it it my first stove and I don't have another that I can butcher for parts.
     
  8. Majicwrench

    Majicwrench Subscriber

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    It comes off easy, but you can just barely turn that nut hat holds it, be happy with little bitty turns. THe factory wrench is best.
    The connection won't fail, these were built for soldiers to put together, just metal to metal.
    There will be a cleaning needle inside, it will stay attached to stove.
    The screen is often very well plugged on the bottom, and needs to be clean.
    If you haven't tried to light it yet you should. No use taking it apart unless you need or want to.
    Flush tank see what comes out!
     
  9. pipenfly

    pipenfly Subscriber

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    We're slowly getting closer to flame on this stove here. I received some new gaskets and I'm sorting out the air check valve. I'm not quite sure how to place everything back into the bottom of the pump. I remember the placement of all the parts when I got the stove but I'm not sure if it was in there properly.
    Here is how I believe it should be put back in. Spring first against the main body of the pump. Is this correct...
    P_20200304_130531_vHDR_Auto~2.jpg
    ...or should it be in like so? Air check gasket first?
    P_20200304_125031_vHDR_Auto~2.jpg
    No matter which way it's put in, there is no air flow at this point. I believe I will have to trim the spring in order to get the proper tension. I figured I should ask to be sure of the placement before I started trimming anything.
    Thanks again!
     

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  10. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    2nd photo arrangement.
     
  11. pipenfly

    pipenfly Subscriber

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    Thank you presscall! I was confused because the arrangement was as in the first photo when I first took the stove apart. I couldn't see the sense in putting pressure on the air check mechanism in that way.
    The pump is in decent working order now. It took some work to get the spring to the right tension. I had to shave thousandths of an inch off the spring at a time. The tolerance between success and failure of the air check is tight indeed! I had to dis and reassemble everything more times than I care to count!
    No flame yet. I found a fuel leak at the pricker lever. That's been repacked with graphite. I'm off to get some Permatex aircraft form a gasket so I can get this thing back together for the next step.
     
  12. Majicwrench

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    Did you replace the pip?? I have heard a rumor that some pips for the M1950 are too thick and you need to trim the pip as opposed to trim the spring, but trimming either should work.
    Looking forward to fire
     
  13. cottage hill bill

    cottage hill bill Subscriber

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    Be aware that with this type of valve it works differently that a check valve arrangement like Coleman uses. In a check valve system pushing down on the pump piston immediately opens the air passage and the pump stroke is felt as a smooth continuous stroke. When the stroke ends, air pressure in the fount forces the check valve closed and restricts air escape enough to pull the pump up and make the next stroke.

    In a non-return valve (NRV) system the air pressure in the pump tube must overcome the spring resistance of the NRV before air is allowed to flow into the fount. So with a NRV the pump stroke is one of increasing resistance until suddenly the spring pressure is overcome and the pump piston slams to the bottom of the tube. If you have reduced the spring tension until it is a smooth stroke you may have gone too far. You can often hear a click when the NRV releases on the pump stroke.
     
  14. pipenfly

    pipenfly Subscriber

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    I did replace the pip. There is an ebay seller that has a good sized rebuild kit for this particular Aladdin stove. If anyone needs that information, let me know.
    Ok, I've hit a wall on this one. After working on this stove as time permits for a few weeks, I've become stuck.
    I had the air check working properly but I stretched out the air check spring to get the proper tension. It worked well for a little while. After I got the other pieces of the stove back together, the spring must have settled back into its original shape and now the pump sucks fuel.
    The bad news for me is that I destroyed the original air check spring and sourcing a replacement is proving to be a huge pita. I found an online retailer that has a $45 minimum purchase order so I ordered about 35 springs from them to meet their minimum. Out of the 35 springs I chose, only one was close to the size and tension of the original. Well, I destroyed that new spring as well. I am not sure if it would have worked but the tension and diameter seemed a close match to what is needed.
    I called Mike at Old Coleman Parts. He said that he doesn't know where to get springs for this stove because it is an Aladdin military stove. It's not a Coleman and the Coleman parts won't do the job. He's absolutely correct. The parts that fit out of the Coleman rebuild kit I received is the O ring that seals the pump to the fount and the pump leather.
    Now, I can't bring myself to spend another $45 on a spring order. Does anyone know of cheaper source for the proper size and tension springs for this stove? The outer diameter of spring that fits into the little pip/spring holder is round about from .140" to .156". The tension is extremely light.
    I'm not about to give up on this one but it is a lot more work and searching than I expected. I must be a glutton for punishment.
     
  15. Harder D. Soerensen

    Harder D. Soerensen Denmark Subscriber

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    45$ - OUCH!
    Have you looked at the normal springs used for the swedish family of stoves (the NRV-Springs?)
    Or from cheap ball-pens? The latter comes in a variety of sizes.
    I recall fettling my Aladdin 1942 MOD, that I had to experiment a bit on the spring tension with the same results as yours (Either too much tension and no pumping or too little and no sealing)?
     
  16. pipenfly

    pipenfly Subscriber

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    I have not looked into springs for the Swedish stoves. I certainly will. Thank you.
    I have placed another order for more springs from another spring supplier. If any good has come out of the spring exercise so far, it's that I've learned a little about what to look for when ordering them. I've also taken every retractable pen and pencil I could find in the house, car and the wife's car apart looking for a spring that will fit into the holder. I've noticed the springs from retractable pencils have a better fit but are usually to rigid.
    I do enjoy hunting and collecting things but this is getting to be a little crazy now!
    One more positive note, I've cobbled together a set of sanding sticks out of thin slats of wood and different grades of sand paper. I am using the coarser abrasive (about 180 grit or so) to shave the springs down. Then the finer abrasives (320 - 800 grit) to smooth out any protruding burrs the more aggressive grit leaves behind. Hopefully, this method will allow me to reduce the length of the spring in tiny increments and give me some control as I tread the line between to much and to little.
     
  17. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    @Majicwrench was right when he spoke of checking and adjusting the ‘pip’ seal thickness if necessary. I’ve never resorted to removing coil lengths but have compressed them between finger and thumb to ensure they’ve not been overstretched. Gauge of the wire in an NRV spring is all - distinguishes between too stiff or too soft.
     
  18. pipenfly

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    @presscall @Majicwrench @Harder D. Soerensen @cottage hill bill
    She works! I let it go for about 20 minutes while checking for leaks and/or rogue flames. It seems tight even after heating and cooling.
    P_20200310_150604~2.jpg
    I'd still like to get another spring. It would be great if this could be a dependable stove.
    I stopped trimming the spring in the air check valve and started trimming down the pip instead. Live and learn. I couldn't wrap my head around getting a grip on such a small piece of rubber and then cutting a thin even slice off of it. I tried with a pair of pliers and a razor. I ruined three pips by either cutting unevenly or to much. Then I got a hold of the little rubber in a pair of needle nose pliers and little by little, sanded it to size by shaping it. There is a little depression in the cup that holds the pip. I shaped the pip to fit into the depression with a little sanding trial and error.
    Thanks everyone for the guidance!
    I'll certainly be in the hunt for more stoves. Hopefully I cut my teeth on this one and won't need so much direction on the next project.
    Thanks again!
    P_20200310_160352_SRES~2.jpg
     
  19. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    @pipenfly
    Well done!

    I admire your determination to get the job done with no prior experience.

    Actually, it can one of the toughest jobs too, getting a NRV to seal and achieve a smooth pump action. Most of the time it’s straightforward but occasionally that combination of spring tension and ‘pip’ elasticity and thickness throws up a problem.

    John
     
  20. Majicwrench

    Majicwrench Subscriber

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    Congrats. One of the best looking stoves there is.

    Is there not a bitty spring inside a Bic lighter??