alcohol foldable boxed stove - identification?

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by blabast88, Aug 2, 2021.

  1. blabast88

    blabast88 France Subscriber

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    Hi everyone,

    I came across that stove, found in France, which remains unidentified (to me). I don't know much about alcohol stoves, so if anyone could help me identify this feller, I'd be grateful!

    Here are the pictures (quality is not very good, those are from the seller's auction):

    s-l1600 (4).jpg

    s-l1600 (5).jpg

    s-l1600 (9).jpg

    s-l1600.jpg

    s-l1600 (3).jpg

    s-l1600 (2).jpg

    s-l1600 (1).jpg

    s-l1600 (8).jpg

    s-l1600 (6).jpg

    s-l1600 (7).jpg

    According to the seller's observations, there are no markings / brand name on that stove. If I'm right, the control knob could be bakelite / fiber (like on some Pigeon Ignus). I don't know what it could be, but the overall aspect / the materials make me suggest a datation between 1930's and beginning of the 1960's... This is quite a large spectra, and I could be wrong.

    If anyone could help me on that one... :-k

    Bastien
     
  2. cottage hill bill

    cottage hill bill Subscriber

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    That speaks to me of a very well done homemade piece rather than a production stove. Someone with professional metal working skills who wanted a stove.
     
  3. OMC

    OMC United States Subscriber

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    @blabast88 Bastien,
    I would be quite content to begin this query with stoves in hand but i digress.
    I am interested in a good stovie history mystery.
    ... history, I lean more to 30s vs 60s.
    The U-shape bend in fuel inlet definitely looked familiar but i was recalling a round tank (AraraS34) vs square tank/stove.
    Your French connection, was most helpful for me (after looking everywhere else), looking at France,
    specifically Motoshi's LE COMPAGNON ...
    a thread you are already very familiar with, as it turns out.
    His stove is not at all a "match" but it has very similar:
    design,
    burner end to end,
    folding pieces,
    knob on same chain,
    filler tube & cap...
    may be worthy of consideration.

    Maybe you can review French catalogs more?

    Reading Motoshi's comments:
    He views the round tank as unique...
    not sure if that makes your square tank (and case shape) more typical?
    I recall folding round tanks, no case. No case left them vulnerable.

    He mentions an AraraS34 resemblance :thumbup:...
    the U-shape bend in fuel inlet, also had me thinking S34 type (and round tank).

    As for home made,
    **if square tank appears to be original with stove in hand,
    I'd guess the stove was manufactured.

    **IF tank was replaced, that
    explains no marking as name is on tank of others and
    may return to chb suggestion of home made case for bitsa stove.
     
  4. blabast88

    blabast88 France Subscriber

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    Thank you @cottage hill bill and @OMC for your advices. I've received that interesting piece of stove today...

    Well, I must say that so far, I can't really figure out what it is, and having it at home doesn't help me answer the question of its origin. I have examinated the whole thing, looking for details, marks, etc. Couldn't find any markings or brand name on it, and as my knowledge in alcohol stoves isn't as good as on gassies, I can't really compare it with something I know. But, there as a few clues that help a little bit. I will take and post some pictures this weekend, to illustrate what I'm writing here.

    First, there are some clear "cue marks" on the inside of the lid. It shows that the person who built that stove had to place some marks on the aluminium lid to locate the place of the burner and the priming cup, using a metal compass and a metal pen / something sharp enough to mark the aluminium.

    Secondly, the level of details is quite impressive... I've dismantled that stove a little bit, and I must say that I've been quite impressed with the technical solutions brought here. Everything have been thought of, before building that item.

    Those first observations bring me two hypothesis so far:

    - first one joins @cottage hill bill 's thoughts, that this stove could have been homemade by someone who wanted a stove. That said, it must have been a person with solid metal working skills and engineering, because the whole thing looks and works just right.

    - second could join @OMC 's hypothesis, with a possible link to a french or german manufacturer. If so, that thing is clearly a prototype. A very well-made prototype, but not a finished product made to be sold as this. I'm saying this because even if the technical level is pretty high, the finishings are not at a market level. Marks of manufacturing / cue marks are still visible, there's no brand written anywhere...

    Bastien
     
  5. blabast88

    blabast88 France Subscriber

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    More pictures of that particular stove:


    1. Overall view

    IMG_4974.JPG



    2. Size comparison with a nice Optimus 8 (aluminium model) received recently

    IMG_4975.JPG



    3. Size comparison with an Optimus 8

    IMG_4977.JPG



    4. Front view

    IMG_4978.JPG



    5. Detail of a latch

    IMG_4979.JPG



    6. Detail of a rivet, sanded

    IMG_4980.JPG



    7. Detail of a set of two rivets, sanded as well

    IMG_4981.JPG



    8. The lid and the rivets of the pot supports, sanded. The screw maintains the burner and the pre-heating cup in place

    IMG_4982.JPG



    9. Sanded rivets (detail)

    IMG_4983.JPG



    10. The only screw of the stove (center), made to maintain the burner, and consequently the whole system in place

    IMG_4984.JPG



    11. The lid's hinge, making the stove look like a handmade one

    IMG_4985.JPG



    12. Detail of how the two elements are cut / made

    IMG_4988.JPG



    13. The stove, opened, tank still folded

    IMG_4989.JPG



    14. When opened, the lid doesn't reach the ground directly. You have to put it in the right position before using the stove

    IMG_4992.JPG



    15. Tank unfolded / deployed. On the left: the tool allowing to remove all the parts of the stove that are screwed, and a little brass funnel

    IMG_4993.JPG



    16. Detail of the burner / pot supports

    IMG_4995.JPG



    17. The knob, attached to one of the pot supports by a chain. It seems to be made in some kind of fiber

    IMG_4997.JPG



    18. The knob (detail of the part that connects to the stove)

    IMG_5000.JPG



    19. Overall view of the stove, deployed

    IMG_5001.JPG



    20. The burner and its plumbing

    IMG_5002.JPG



    21. Folding part of the plumbing

    IMG_5003.JPG



    22. View from the side, tank folded

    IMG_5007.JPG



    23. Rear view of the plumbing, tank folded

    IMG_5008.JPG



    24. Another view from the rear of the plumbing

    IMG_5009.JPG



    25. Detail of the tank's welding

    IMG_5010.JPG



    26. Succession of soft material layers, made to protect the tank when folded, stove closed

    IMG_5011.JPG



    27. Those layers are riveted to the body of the stove

    IMG_5012.JPG



    28. Tank and burner dismantled, using the original tool. The pre-heat cup is still in place

    IMG_5013.JPG



    29. Preheating cup removed, and pot supports (riveted)

    IMG_5014.JPG



    30. Traces of markings, used to put the elements in the right place when the stove was created

    IMG_5016.JPG



    31. Same traces (detail)

    IMG_5018.JPG



    32. The part of the burner that is normally screwed to the box

    IMG_5019.JPG



    33. Same part (detail)

    IMG_5020.JPG



    34. Part of the plumbing that could be dismantled without using any tool

    IMG_5025.JPG



    35. Burner (detail)

    IMG_5026.JPG



    36. Burner, view from 3/4 (detail)

    IMG_5027.JPG



    37. Burner, view from 3/4 (other side). The little hole on the right allow some flame to heat the main tube when the stove is lit

    IMG_5028.JPG



    38. Inside / bottom of the burner

    IMG_5030.JPG



    39. Plumbing / burner (detail)

    IMG_5031.JPG



    40. Tank's cap, with a gauge / level indicator

    IMG_5042.JPG



    I must admit that I still don't know what this stove is, or where it came from. The person who sold it to me said that there were some 1940's / 1950's items in the cellar where this stove has been found (somewhere in France). No further details about it...

    The level of engineering / construction seen here is, in my opinion, pretty impressive. Even if the system remains simple, it is very effective and some details show that every part of that stove was the result of a reflection. But, taking the little "imperfections" in consideration (visible sanded rivets, traces / markings of the construction phase, "basic" hinge...), it could be a homemade stove as well.

    What are your thoughts about it? @OMC ? @cottage hill bill ?

    John @presscall , any idea? :-k

    Bastien
     
  6. CRAZY CRAB

    CRAZY CRAB Ireland Subscriber

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    nice stove,
     
  7. geeves

    geeves New Zealand Subscriber

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    The welding on the edges of the box, the rivets, and the pot stand are very nicely done but they are not mass produced. The catches, hinge and handle are all from a hardware store. The box was made a long time ago but it was made at home. The burner and tank look commercial even though the tank has a large repair. The pipework could have been changed. Someone might be able to identify these.
    My guess is that this was a stove in a steel box and the box rusted out so the owner made a replacement. He has done a nice job.
     
  8. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    @blabast88 I agree that it was a home project and not from a manufacturer, incorporating hardware components. The hinge is clumsily installed, but the stove was constructed to be functional and not win prizes for its looks.

    It’d be good to see it fired up.

    John
     
  9. Lennart F Sweden

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    All details seem to be "home made" in a tool workshop by a quite skilled mechanic but just good enough welder - inspired by Turm and several Gustav Barthel brands of spirit stoves.
    Hinges and locks are obviously from the hardware store.
     
  10. blabast88

    blabast88 France Subscriber

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    Thanks a lot @geeves , @presscall and @Lennart F for your opinions. It seems confirmed that this stove is a handmade model. In some french periodic from 1953, named "Les sélections de système D", there are a few articles describing how to create your own stove. They mention several types of stove: butane, alcohol, gasoline and petrol. Even if it's not exactly the exact same stove, the alcohol model is showing a few things in common with my aluminium alcohol stove. I'll need to scan / take a photo of the page in my magazine to illustrate those words.

    John @presscall I will for sure take some picture of the stove, lit. ;)

    Bastien
     
  11. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi, @blabast88 ,

    Someone had a great time making this interesting Meths stove, that seems apparent! Thank you for your excellent photos of this old guy! You did a grand job on taking us as close to the stove as we can get, via the internet, and I appreciate your sense of detail in the photos! Like @presscall , and others, I, too, look forward to seeing your "one of" fired up, and running! I'm betting that, maybe with a small amount of fettling, this guy will run nicely. Be safe, consider doing the firing outside, and keep water nearby, in case things go South on you! Thanks, again, for sharing your find with us, and good luck on the test firing! Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  12. blabast88

    blabast88 France Subscriber

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    Hi @Doc Mark ,

    Thank you for your kind message!
    Well, I fired it up already. I didn't take the chance to do photos at that time, but what I can say is that this stove works perfectly. Maybe it's a little bit thirsty, as I had the impression that the amount of alcohol I put inside the tank burned quite fastly, but I need to verify this statement.

    Bastien
     
  13. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Bastien,

    Empty out the fuel from your first firing, and weigh the stove kit. Then, fill the tank, fire it again, and when you're finished with your testing, weigh the stove again. Should give you a rough idea of what it's fuel needs are. Cool that it worked so well! Look forward to seeing it in action, when you're ready to share! Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  14. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

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    I took the liberty to fix that for ya.
    Ken
     
  15. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Thanks, Brother Ken! :thumbup::content:
     
  16. blabast88

    blabast88 France Subscriber

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    Hi everyone,

    Some pictures of the stove being used:



    41. Connecting the control knob to the main screw

    IMG_5113.JPG



    42. Unscrewing to allow some alcohol to get into the priming cup

    IMG_5114.JPG



    43. Alcohol reaching the priming cup

    IMG_5116.JPG



    44. View from the side: you can spot the alcohol drop coming from the little tube / pipe on the right

    IMG_5121.JPG



    45. Lighting the alcohol, allowing the stove to prime

    IMG_5124.JPG



    46. Priming

    IMG_5127.JPG



    47. Flames starting to come out from the jets

    IMG_5129.JPG



    48. Flame during the stabilizing / priming process

    IMG_5131.JPG



    49. Flame stabilized

    IMG_5135.JPG



    50. Kettle on (unmarked model made of aluminium, not dated, supposedly from an era between the 1930's and the 1950's... perfect match with this stove)

    IMG_5136.JPG



    51. Flames heating the kettle

    IMG_5137.JPG



    52. Detail of the flames

    IMG_5141.JPG



    53. View from above

    IMG_5145.JPG



    54. Overall view of the whole set being used

    IMG_5153.JPG



    55. Water boiling

    IMG_5158.JPG


    To make this test, I've put 1l of cool water (from the tap) in the aluminium kettle, I lit and primed the stove, and put the kettle on once the stove was primed and the flame stabilized. It took 10'45 min to boil 1l, which is not especially a world record, but that's not bad for a stove made from scratch. I didn't weight the whole thing before and after to see which amount of fuel it needed to boil this liter of water. I might do another boil test later in that purpose.

    Bastien
     
  17. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Very nice.
     
  18. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    @blabast88 Great performer Bastien. Thanks for the photos.

    John
     
  19. blabast88

    blabast88 France Subscriber

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    Thanks John @presscall . Even if it doesn't reach the aesthetic standards of manufactured stoves, it is quite an impressive item, working very well...

    Bastien