Alexandra - TH KREUNGEL WILNA

Discussion in 'Mystery Stoves' started by Neil Humphris, Jan 24, 2021.

  1. Neil Humphris Australia

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    Currently lives in Belarus. Has a date stamp 1896. WILMA when translated from German, is Vilnius (in Lithuania) . Kreungel is some sort of surname???
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  2. gieorgijewski

    gieorgijewski Subscriber

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  3. OMC

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    @Neil Humphris
    Welcome!
    Neil,
    *This could be very interesting indeed, thank you.
    I almost reported post to correct WILMA, and request the change to WILNA.
    It is "WILNA" on the stove.
    Btw it may be significant that it is "Th" ... for me for now makes it no less mysterious.
    You and gieorgi have dug deeper based on WILMA
    *am I missing something?

    Re next 2 lines, darn it, this stove is in Belarus... not in hand, arghhh.
    *can you make best effort and share text criss-crossed on burner?
    Can you show the 1896 date stamp?

    I'm not yet "all-in" going with Russia export/maker but along that line:
    Alexandra: Empress of the Russian Empire from 1894 (her later assassination sparked WW1?)
    IIRC we have associated the several other "ALEXANDRA" stoves with her and Russian makers?
    Those stoves are early, possibly earlier? and those are all more alike, this one differs from those.
    A close look at ext NRV may reveal exact or near match to earliest Optimus?
    Reminder for some, stove exports Sweden to Russia (Russian pressure stove use) as early as any, earlier than many.
    An aside: IMO same could be said for German Empire importing but designing their own (Barthel) as well, very early.
    @gieorgijewski
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
  4. gieorgijewski

    gieorgijewski Subscriber

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    stove is "early Optimus alike"
    Early Optimus - dating probe discussion...
    Wilna:
    is Vilnus-Wilno
    --------------
    What is "Th" - i do not know...
    maybe in swedish Tradesomething
    but "We" know "Willanders", "Bade" samples...
     
  5. gieorgijewski

    gieorgijewski Subscriber

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  6. igh371

    igh371 SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi @gieorgijewski, @Neil Humphris
    I don't see anything to indicate 1896, but the all-through external NRV access pump tube does look suspiciously like those developed by Optimus in the decade before WW1 (and used by Optimus on some stoves marketed under the Record name). Optimus do seem to have had a strategy of hanging on to acquired defunct brand names and using them selectively to target different markets. So I do wonder if they had acquired the old Svenska/Wollert 'Alexandra' name at some point too?
    I wonder how/why the pump rod end ended up back-to-front?:lol:
    Ian:thumbup:
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
  7. Neil Humphris Australia

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    Sorry about the title... yes, it should be WILNA
     
  8. Neil Humphris Australia

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    The cross on the burner says
    ШТАМП
    СССР ТУЛА

    That is to say STAMP (Or STAMPED)
    USSR - Tula (Tula is the city of gunsmith industries in soviet times)

    So the Burner metal was STAMPED in TULA city, USSR

    So the mention I made about the Date was a mis-translation (He was saying because of the USSR, it cannot be 1896)

    Does the R on the base indicate that it is a Primus? and that R could be the Primus date stamp for 1927???

    СССР ТУЛА ШТАМП.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2021
  9. igh371

    igh371 SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi Neil, it's neither, the 'R' isn't a Primus date code 'R', just one of the various extraneous letters and numbers which are frequently found scattered over older stoves, apparently something to do with production processes accounting and traceability. So date is still 'up in the air', but the distinctive all-through pump tube would seem to point to the decade before WW1. The Tula burner won't be the original fitment, but a standard in-service replacement unit.
    This is a very intriguing stove and unique discovery!
    Ian:thumbup:
     
  10. gieorgijewski

    gieorgijewski Subscriber

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    from other side:
    Wilno (lit. Vilnius wymowa i, biał. Вільня, Вільнюс, ros. Вильнюс, Вильна, łot. Viļņa,
    german niem. Wilna,
    jid. ווילנע = Wilne,hebr. וילנה = Wilna, łac. Vilna)
    "We" - can understand - stove was produced for german speaking
    official language to the 1915 was russian
    from 1915-1918 under Germans occupation
    from 1920 in Poland
     
  11. OMC

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    Thanks to all,
    Re OP my latest curiosities happen to be satisfied:
    > later roarer, "ШТАМП СССР ТУЛА" text is appreciated and maybe my something new learned today.
    > 1896 in doubt or ruled out. Pre-20s, with Ian's suggestion being viable; the decade pre WW1.

    Another 191x (or earlier) indicator being the tight bend at top of pot support, to my eye the feet shape fit same time and also Optimus form.
    So, although we got some good answers, pretty much the whole of the mystery:
    maker / origin
    model / name details
    remain a mystery ](*,).

    gieorgi, you posted as I typed, and you've lost me,
    do your latest details support stove exported c. 1915-18 to German speaking location, ok? Possible location(s) such as?
    and the stove maker / country origin... any closer? anybody?
    ===========================================

    btw a special thanks to you
    gieorgi!!
    I know I join many, saying it is refreshing to have you engaging when you do. You are missed when not posting (rarities).
    It seems by now you must hold an unofficial record for "firsts".
    Sharing for the first time on the site rare examples.
    I understand and appreciate, that at times
    making one brief accurate comment re ancient but "new" to the site details
    can be the culmination of hours/days of research :thumbup::thumbup: .
    You're known for steadily adding mages of rare stoves, first/only time such example had been seen on CCS.
    You're also the first to add many rare maker names, often with supporting findings, timelines and locations!!
    Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
  12. gieorgijewski

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    at first....
    datation 1915 - 1918 - is unsure - optional...
    --------------------------
    "Ockham razor" says:
    - external NRV as end of pump tube is connected with RECORD, OPTIMUS, and ... and
    [​IMG]
    Quick's patent No 1 ( AXEL ROBt Bildt)
    Quick's patent No 1 ( AXEL ROBt Bildt)
    where Bildt example could be paralel in time - product to the OPTIMUS - production - or the way to explore ended product line...
    "We" know - it is Blidt - not Optimus brand
    current and Bildt examples
    have the same feets
    [​IMG]
    for compare - Early Optimus - dating probe discussion...
    Thats locate both examples in the middle of "external NRV" production
    ----------
    IMO - for this time:

    THIS was OPTIMUS probe locate production on russian baltic area.
    is it official non branded - or private project - i do not know
    but Bildt example seems be similar.

    as off topic
    [​IMG]
    Bildt example - have "too much" from Willanders designs...