Another NZ 4M with a difference

Discussion in 'Coleman No:4' started by Barrett, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. Barrett New Zealand

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    Hi All

    Continuing my 4/4M obsession... I shall put this in the reference gallery to sit with the others as NZ found examples.

    I picked up this well used 4M on our local auction site, luckily for me almost free, and with a little waiting, free delivery too.
    20190718_134254.jpg

    So now I have a 4M with cast steel manifold and steel burner assembly as widely recognised/accepted as early 4M production materials (I believe they swapped back and forth between cast and pressed manifolds during 4M production run?)

    20190718_134126.jpg

    Copper paint coloured tank as with my 4NL and 4M with CI burners, but which according to accepted production materials for 4M's, this tank should be steel, it's Everdur, well at least nonmagnetic as tested by the caravan fridge magnet seen in above pic.

    Tank has the large 3 piece cap and red knobs, but no date (pre Coleman Canada stove date stamping start in 1963?)

    The main burner is part of manifold casting, auxiliary assembly and burner bases are pressed steel and auxiliary is connected to main by threaded pipe.
    20190718_144746.jpg

    Both burners contain 7 rings, 3 wavey and 4 flat (including the restrictor plate in main)
    20190718_141106.jpg


    The stove appears to have a locally made replacement grate, I guess the fact that the 4M grates are not attached led to the losses noted before.

    This stove also has a locally made stand system, 3 bolts and wing nuts attaching it to the stove and a receptacle underneath for what appears to have been a pipe upright with either a base, or a piece of pipe simply driven into the ground, I only have the attached piece.
    20190718_134416.jpg

    So again another example that appears to show that NZ was receiving 4/4M stoves that fall outside of the expected/accepted production materials, and I think that the inclusion of an Everdur tank with the cast steel manifold and steel burners in this 4M again possibly shows that NZ was receiving early development/run products when viewed in conjunction with my unstamped 4NL and the 2 known NZ found stamped 4M's with CI assemblies and Everdur tanks.

    But who really knows? And they're only 4M's after all.... lol


    Cheers
    Barrett
     
  2. Ed Winskill

    Ed Winskill United States Subscriber

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    Really good post. "Only 4Ms after all". I do love that!

    Let's face it: we chase after the brass beauties (so have I in my time), while, as recent posters have again stated, Colemans still go for giveaway prices (at least in the US). Why? Because people bought millions of those wholly reliable utilitarian stoves.

    I have my sentimental attachment to my boyhood Optimus 45. But I camped with my folks and my kids and grandkids for going on 60 years now to the hiss of the Coleman stove. It's in the Yank blood, for sure! And I think the Canadian as well. How widespread were these in Oz?
     
  3. geeves

    geeves New Zealand Subscriber

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    Another thing to consider is the supply chain. Back then the Americas were not common trading partners and also this was close to predating container shipping. There would likely of been no NZ agent so hardware chains would of imported themselves. This meant 2 things happened. First the cost was very high compared to the more common stoves of the day and as the shop had to import a fair number the stoves could easily of sat in the shop for who knows how long. It wouldnt surprise me if in some long forgotten warehouse here that there is still a box or 2 of these waiting to be sold. Then because of their age parts break and get replaced with what can be obtained. Early case rusts out and the owner finds a good later case with a blocked burner. The NZ way of thinking would see it fixed even if one of the stoves was a Primus 72
     
  4. Barrett New Zealand

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    Thanks Ed!
    Yes Coleman has got into my blood too, stoves and lanterns now lol, just so dependable.

    Geeves
    Back at the beginning of my #4's obsession I thought my first orphan was a Franky, then my first 4m, until boogy posted his 4m.
    This is the second steel burner 4m with an Everdur tank that I'm aware of, I didn't secure the first one but the seller confirmed the tank was nonmagnetic.

    So yes there will be some bitsa's out there for sure, but also some that appear to go against known norms too.

    Cheers
    Barrett
     
  5. Barrett New Zealand

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    Just a little more thinking....

    Below is a few pics of my 3 #4 stoves Everdur tanks and one spare Everdur tank that I got from a collectors estate.

    Looking at the fuel caps, the #4's all have the large 3 piece, the other a small 3 piece cap.
    20190718_171458.jpg

    So when did Coleman Canada swap to the large 3 piece ( I'm not sure if it was here or CCF where I ask and it was suggested that on lanterns at least it was from around 1958? )


    What years was fuel knob colour changed?, on my CA lanterns a 59 still has black knob.

    Looking at fuel knobs from front to rear
    Stamped 4M CI burners- red knob
    Stamped 4M CS burners- red knob
    Unstamped 4k case/CI burners- black knob
    Unknown tank, small 3 piece cap- black knob
    20190718_171528.jpg

    All 3 large cap fuel tanks have "To Shut off" instructions below the fuel knob, the one with the small/older fuel cap doesn't.

    So it would appear that Everdur tank production did extend into late 1950's early 60's to have the large fuel cap and red fuel knobs and that suggests these 3 tanks weren't pre 1950's NOS just being used up by Coleman, or home fettler replacements?
    Was there another alloy they used after Everdur?

    Sorry..... I'm away down the rabbit hole with my darn # 4's again....

    Cheers
    Barrett
     
  6. Boogy New Zealand

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    I do recall seeing that on trade me. Well done
     
  7. Simes

    Simes Subscriber

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    @Barrett, you're probably not far of the mark with the reasoning.

    Being a small market and buyers not especially aware, then any flavour of the 4 so long as it worked would have been ok.

    Coleman could have shipped any random bits that made a working stove just to use whatever was kicking about on the production line at the time. Nobody was really going to send one back with a random black knob. Gratefull to get the stove in the first place. And as mentioned they were made to work hard as they were meant to, even with replacement (improved local) mods.
     
  8. OMC

    OMC Subscriber

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    I am sorry.
    There are few things more durable or reliable than coleman suitcase stoves aside from rusted steel tank.
    Replacement parts being installed, for me anyway, would be atypical, not common place (myself, i would not entertain that early on in research). Definite consistent use of parts is what I see and expect. Deliberate changes (often for reason) also consistent.
    Barrett your suggestion that uniquely configured Canadian stoves were destined to Aussie market...
    maybe details/more examples put that conjecture more and more likely? I dunno. I do not suggest yes or no, as to that theory, large batch a "boatload" if you will... (within that batch, consistent product).

    4 things prompt my post:
    I'm jealous of all the everdur tanks.

    In cases when Toronto and Wichita details are combined in discussions/answers has caused confusion.

    I like the small filler cap angle and

    your threaded cross pipe
    This is 1st I've heard it used in Canada IIRC, it's use is short-lived/rare as far as I know.
    For now there is one stove w/threaded cross pipe? or how many 4s?
    i'll try to keep up, i'm late to the party on this one. thx omc
     
  9. Barrett New Zealand

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    Thanks for the comments @Simes and @OMC (OMC, I didn't bother tagging you, or anyone else into this new thread as I know my pursuit down the rabbit hole of differences in the common 4M's is probably not as interesting to most as I find it:roll: )

    Durable and reliable, yes sir, an hour last night cleaning surface rust off burner rings and ensuring airways were clear soon had this middle aged stove alive and ready for action later tonight.
    Biggest job was draining tank of the RUG, the seller had stated that it "runs on unleaded petrol" and the tank contents confirmed it had been a RUG-ular user, surprisingly the generator was spotless.
    Pump leather and CV were in great working condition, the CV with positive shutoff is a great design feature that I respect in Coleman products.

    I too love the everdur tanks, I resist painting them even if I do tidy the stove up, they're pretty well protected for life anyway.
    I missed out on a CA 411 suitcase which also had the copper coloured cylindrical tank, I didn't ask the seller to test with a magnet as I wouldn't have been able to resist if it had turned out everdur too.

    Interesting your comments re the threaded pipe, it is clearly threaded at auxiliary end, with an external nut mounted on auxiliary burner base, Main burner end the threads aren't as visible, so maybe it's a pressed fit at that end? I'll clean up around joint with a wire brush later to investigate.
    Now I'll have to find more 4M examples when possible to check production materials, whilst cheap enough here, I do wish they were all as cheap as this one or as cheap and plentiful as they are in Canada (and unloved lol)
    Guess I should be happy that the object of my obsession with differences in a product line isn't in some rare costly stove model lol.

    Cheers
    Barrett
     
  10. Barrett New Zealand

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    Forgot first light up pic
    20190719_231505.jpg
     
  11. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    Nice flames Mr Barrett. :thumbup:

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  12. Ed Winskill

    Ed Winskill United States Subscriber

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    Good flame.
     
  13. Duck

    Duck United States Subscriber

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    I’d ask you if you would want to trade one for a 426B but the cost of shipping would be a killer and I don’t think you’d survive another wait for a slow boat ride. Btw 4 everdur tanks, sheesh! Looking good Andrew.
     
  14. Barrett New Zealand

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    Cheers guys.

    Haven't seen a 3 burner down here yet @Duck, but considering what a 500 size package cost I think it could be eye watering, now I know expected travel time I could probably survive..... lol
    I have a imaginary import wish list for when I win lotto
     
  15. Barrett New Zealand

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    No matter what, you've got to love a 50+ year old stove cooking a simple night shift supper, it did breakfast at 6am too, but since I didn't take a pic, it may not have happened lol
    Design simplicity and durability at its best.
    20190720_232111.jpg
     
  16. Duck

    Duck United States Subscriber

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    When you win lotto you can come here to visit and cook for me. Lol you make me hungry and I still have another 40lbs to get rid of.
    Looks good Barret.