BAT - stove versions

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by gieorgijewski, Dec 19, 2016.

  1. gieorgijewski

    gieorgijewski Subscriber

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    We have some trouble to recognising BAT - classic model

    bat1.jpg

    bat2_591.jpg

    bat2_607.jpg

    bat3.jpg

    BAT 3 - box shows fixed - stove is collapsible.
    Most examples are fixed.

    As is we see small spare parts are compatible between 1 and 3.
     
  2. gieorgijewski

    gieorgijewski Subscriber

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    "591" - is roarer
    "607" - is silent
     
  3. OMC

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    Excellent post Gieorgi / BATman!!,
    OP is re: BAT classic "model" but sorry, I drift to expand topic (or start at beginning?):
    Credit due to Neil McRae, IMO his comments on-topic are good place to start. His info makes it's clear there is much to learn about BAT stoves (and here we are!), IE "BAT" stove makers history began 1935, it gets complicated involving war, governance and multiple companies (incl take-over/mergers/relocations). The distinct BAT logo has endured btw.
    Many BAT variants developed spanning 30.. 40+? years (approx. end production, decade, of logoed BAT stove was???). There are plenty physical distinctions that can be made over the many years of various examples. As always NOS stoves are very helpful.
    If reader will like to please link with addl. BAT maker history info that is much appreciated.

    My impression is among above GDR examples is a c1965, if so any idea what is the name of this maker?

    Ok, ok re your "591 is roarer, 607 is silent", I list a recap of your examples in text (not in- order):
    Sunburst box (yel/org), made in GDR
    "BAT/1" fixed leg, roarer, lg. slotted reserve lid
    "2/591" BAT collapsible, roarer, sm. *thread reserve lid (*male, 6mm)
    "2/607" BAT collasible, silent, sm. *thread reserve lid (*male, 6mm)
    your BAT/3 stove collapsible, silent, lg. slotted reserve lid
    your "BAT/3" box w/stove above, also see BAT/3 google below
    -end-
    google example:
    "BAT/3" NOS fixed leg, **roarer per box, lg slotted reserve lid (**brnr on stove unk).

    Note re my reference to Lg & Sm thread reserve lids, there is a version w/Med. sz. threads as well. This pertains to reserve lids (thread size), reserve lids that thread-in atop BAT tank lids (when not in-use). There are addl. BAT tank lids beyond these 3.
    thx omc
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  4. OMC

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    Re history German / BAT makers. Although a review of BAT examples may leave questions, as far as i know BAT stoves are from "Germany", 1949-90 from East Germany, formally GDR (German Democratic Republic), an Eastern Bloc state of the Cold War, occupied by Soviets after WW2.
    FWIW conversely, 1949 also established "West Germany".
    thx omc
    PS IIRC, re German stove, 1880 until mid 30s simply "made in Germany" applied.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  5. gieorgijewski

    gieorgijewski Subscriber

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    this is compilation photo from auctions

    I dont know why - in Poland "3" and "2/591, 2/607" not existed on market... thats why We have "1" and "2"

    I am not sure - is "BAT 3" photo - shows proper combination - stove-box
    -----------
    till this moment - "life was easy" we have BAT fixed (in our mind 1)
    and collapsible (in our mind 2)
     
  6. OMC

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    This is funny but also a question, for you, a BAT No.2 was "in your mind".
    Do you recall an actual BAT/2, or no? Jus checkin'.

    Above examples is just a small sampling of BAT stoves which has many more examples.
    Anyway, above we see: (BAT) "2/591 and 2/607" as well as "BAT/1 & Bat/3", if anyone has an image of "BAT/2" on box or ad etc, or also think this BAT/2 exists that will be very welcome content.
    thx omc
     
  7. gieorgijewski

    gieorgijewski Subscriber

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    in 1965 was BAT Kocher 1, 2, 2/591, 2/607
    now is new 3
    if:
    "from ages" - was fixed and collapsible
    and
    different collapsible Roarer and Silent
    and now incomed "3"

    -------
    wich model name fitting to wich stove?
     
  8. ROBBO55

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    Thanks, This helps to clear up model identification. :thumbup:
     
  9. OMC

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    I like bats, who likes BAT? Here's some BAT history puzzle pieces.
    Fledermaus, Flying Mouse, BAT, Schläger, Monsator

    Again credit to Neil McRae..."a lamp researchers point of view", his focus not BAT nor stoves but his research contains content and key details that lead to more BAT information:
    1843 Stübgen & Co founded in Erfurt, Germany
    Fledermaus_opt.jpg

    By pre 1930 Stübgen is well established family owned maker of lamps and other pressure products.
    1935 Stübgen uses Fledermaus (/BAT) brand as trade name, logo?

    1938 Hugo Schneider AG aka HASAG nearby (and newly, Nazi manufacturing conglomerate) takes over Stübgen's BAT brand and the Fledermaus brand becomes part of HASAG
    1370713609-IMG_3584_Hasag_opt.jpg

    End of 1945 an anomaly (w/o detail): Stübgen family was still managing "BAT" works in Erfurt (for HASAG) but not implicated in NAZI war crimes and Stübgen able to return to making BAT pressure products (how many is unk.).

    mid-1946 - 49 Russian authorities were transferring all East German lamp production facilities to combined company of VEB-Mewa-Nirona-Feuerhand-Werke (soon to be MEWA / Meva) all relocated to one location the old Feuerhand factory in Bielefeld. soon after production of pressure products began (with combined assets).

    c1947 -1950s MEWA in Bielefeld produced both MEWA and (by 49) BAT branded products.
    Although early examples exist, iirc I read almost all BAT logo products out there are made during the production run that began in 49.
    Fledermaus2.jpg ???

    [ 1955 similar but "new" BAT logo adopted (prev. logo mired post war jostling)
    wort-bildmarke-696411-anmeldetag-18-04-1955.jpg ] after mid 50s haven't found much yet. 60s?

    mid 70s inscription "Made in GDR" is required, BAT production seems to have been continuous?.
    80s multiple mention of BAT stove possible c80s

    so there's a lil somethin, end thx omc
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  10. OMC

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    Gieorgi,
    When an (in-box) BAT 2 example appears, then we have a look and go from there.

    BAT 3... maybe new to you?
    I'm thinking BAT 1 & 3 are older.
    Maybe we tentatively consider 1 = roarer & 3 = silent? It seems to fit ok w/examples. (1 = fixed leg, 3 = collapsible for me I didn't think that fits the examples).

    I'll have another stab at model list, re 3 versions of reserve lids within list:
    (Lg.) slotted lid = Lg. slotted lid (w/Lg. sz. threads),
    Med. sz. reserve lid = Med. sz. lid (w/Med. sz threads) and
    Reserve lid w/Sm. threads.

    Tenative BAT model list a WIP, corrections and comments welcome:
    Pre 1970
    BAT 1 roarer. (collapsible,) Med. sz. reserve lid, "Germany" a Kerophile post

    from 1970 on...
    BAT 3 silent, (collapsible,) Med. sz reserve lid, "GDR" a SMolson No.1? post

    1970s/80s
    BAT 1 roarer, (collapsible,) slotted reserve lid, GDR, rizer fixed to tank a Kerophile post

    70s/80s Sunburst box (yel/org), made in GDR
    BAT 1 roarer, (fixed leg,) slotted reserve lid, GDR, rizer fixed to tank above example and Kuwait post, btw yes he says is No.3
    BAT 3 silent, (collapsible,) slotted reserve lid, GDR, rizer fixed to tank .3 examples in box now found and btw box illustration all 3 shows roarer burner (w/silent inside)
    BAT 3 silent, (fixed leg,) slotted reserve lid, GDR, rizer fixed to tank

    ?? / 80s / ?? Sunburst box (yel/org), made in GDR

    "2/591" BAT roarer, (collapsible,) reserve lid w/sm. threads
    "2/607" BAT silent, (collapsible,) reserve lid w/sm. threads
    thx omc
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  11. ROBBO55

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    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  12. OMC

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    Martin,
    What I think I'm seeing is the same stove as yours? No?
    Don't I see same lid/reserve lid as yours (yours missing it's reserve).
    If 2/607 instructions are '74, stove that they shipped out with was made NET (no earlier than) 74, good to know.
    thx omc
    PS going offline
     
  13. gieorgijewski

    gieorgijewski Subscriber

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  14. gieorgijewski

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    IT could be simplest as We think...
    1. fixed
    2. collapsible (old)
    1 and 2 - burners the same mount diameter
    2/591 collapsible roarer
    2/607 collapsible silent
    3. fixed silent (i think - diameter of riser tube/burner - fits to 2/591, 2/607 burners)
     
  15. dusan

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    Slowly please.

    1885 - Heidersdorf ,Ernst Haehnel ( Perfektus stove )
    1905 - Brandau ,(now Brandov,Czech R.),Ernst Haehnel second work

    after WW2
    VEB Sturmlaternen werk Beierfeld (Erzgeb.),
    werk Heidersdorf ( Perfektus / BAT stoves
    lately
    HPV - Heidersdorfer Produktions und Vertriebgesellschaft

    1945 -Ernst Haehnel GmbH ,Luedenscheit ,Westfalia ,West Germany
    1950 + Enders + Vulcano

    Also , new BAT stoves are made in former work from Ernst Haehnel in Heidersdorf.

    Dusan.
     
  16. gieorgijewski

    gieorgijewski Subscriber

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    Dusan
    questions:
    logo bat on - non East Germany - stove is possible?
     
  17. dusan

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    Exist no stove with BAT logo before.
    After WW2 make east side weiter with mark Perfektus,also lantern Feuerhand.
    After right strike with west side you must change the name and you take in this time free mark BAT.
    (New) BAT continue not the (old ) BAT. Show the logo.Wings of new BAT are others.

    D.
     
  18. OMC

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    Gieorgi,
    Thank you for another list, seriously, thank you. There is much info above but I do not think is solved I keep open mind to your suggestion (you too for me please?). I know I am try, I am (tentative), I do not say it is done. One thing I will say, re your "IT could be simplest as We think...", imo re BAT history (1843 - 1980s) and BAT models... it is not simple (is why we are here for this one), maybe for some later decades we will find more simple (as you say).
    There is a table top spirit BAT 2. Please for you or anyone want us to continue refer to BAT 2 (3-legger) here, please try to show example, validate 3-leg BAT 2 or explain. I look thoroughly and do not see even one reference to this "BAT 2" and no example (it is sure I could be missing this BAT 2, yes, but I am looking, looking... help). More later.

    Martin I hear ya... now (sorry, I can be a lil slow),
    I see (now) it is different than yours, you do show us another version, thank you !
    if I go by my list above, whatever the lid is, it will fit right in, and can be shown something like...
    2/607 BAT silent, (fixed leg,) _____? reserve lid (I thought it looks like the sm thread, the newest lid...? if so, lid same as yours).
    @ROBBO55

    Dusan and fellow stovies,
    We will want to hear more, *this is interesting, making sense My impression too is production interrupted more (than just 46-49) but I have not found info.

    Thank you. Re Dusan's "*After right strike with west side you must change the name and you take in this time free mark BAT.
    (New) BAT continue not the (old ) BAT. Show the logo. Wings of new BAT are others."

    Dusan,
    We fellow stovies, I think, will need your comments continue. More inputs is needed for more BAT stove information, please help. Thank you.
    You and I partial agree, you (I repeat) my "almost all BAT logo products out there are made during the production run that began in 49."
    With all due respect, re your "Exist no stove with BAT logo before."... they were/are rare but clearly BAT logo was already in-use, stoves (and lamps) were made c1935-c38/39. Credit Ross :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: here
    and :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Nick's @brassnipplekey rare early BAT No.00a picnic stove kit, a beauty in the flesh here

    @igh371 commented on your BAT stove . Examples like this is why I know, for me, still many missing pieces.
    thanks to all, we learn, omc
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  19. OMC

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    Gieorgi, Re my "...maybe for some later decades we will find more simple (as you say)."
    We both see on our lists:
    2/591 BAT roarer, (collapsible,) reserve lid w/sm. threads
    Maybe destinction of this BAT (collapsible) roarer is only tourist / camp stove (roarer only, no burner options).
    iirc all other boxes show same fixed leg roarer illustration on tall box.
    Only 2/591 is in SHORT box with different roarer illustration , it SHOWS STOVE TAKEN TO PIECES, look close (trivet, legs, burner removed).

    VS We see
    BAT 3 and 2/607 collapsible & fixed comes w/silent in tall box BUT maybe later version BAT 3 roarer option was offered?

    @Radler and others noting the different rizers, this is key piece needs also to fit.

    Workers needed to use collapsible tank for model 2/591 (needed for camping BUT is it possible re (later version BAT 3 and) 2/607 BAT, that they used either one, fixed or collapsible (no downside). ??? that might help explain some things?

    With all that rigmarole, I'll suggest an updated tentative
    WIP BAT model list: corrections and comments welcome.
    1950s / early 60s ???
    Thank you Dusan for comments and your post

    1960s
    BAT 1 roarer, (fixed leg) earlier flat tank lid , Germany, rizer fixed to tank. Gieorgi link

    Pre 1970

    BAT 1 roarer. (collapsible,) Med. sz. reserve lid, "Germany" a Kerophile post
    BAT 3? silent, (collapsible,) Med. sz. reserve lid, "Germany"

    from 1970 on...

    BAT 3 silent, (collapsible,) Med. sz reserve lid, "GDR" a SMolson No.1? post
    [lack examples to-date but we expect same in fixed leg silent/roarer ]

    1970s/80s
    BAT 1 roarer, (fixed leg,) slotted reserve lid, GDR, rizer fixed to tank a Kerophile post


    70s/80s Sunburst box (yel/org), made in GDR
    BAT 1 roarer, (fixed leg) slotted reserve lid, GDR, rizer fixed to tank. in-box my find
    BAT 3 silent, (collapsible,) slotted reserve lid, GDR, rizer fixed to tank. OP example +
    BAT 3 silent, (fixed leg,) slotted reserve lid, GDR, rizer fixed to tank. above Gieorgi link.


    70s/80s Sunburst box (yel/org), made in GDR (maybe model BAT 1 was dropped?)
    BAT 3 w/roarer option?, (fixed leg,) slotted reserve lid, GDR, rizer fixed to tank Kuwait post , and OP example.

    ?? / 80s / ?? Sunburst box (yel/org), made in GDR
    "2/591" BAT roarer, (collapsible,) reserve lid w/sm. threads. OP +
    "2/607" BAT silent, (collapsible,) reserve lid w/sm. threads ROBB post
    "2/607" BAT silent, (fixed leg,) reserve lid w/sm. threads ROBB example above.
    thx omc
    tag @kerophile just fyi cuz your posts are referenced. @Spiritburner forgot to tag THANK YOU for c1938 BAT catalog
    @dusan I am sorry, I really screw up, i forgot and important to tag you, please see my comment above this one. I will especially like to hear more from your experience, thx again..
     
  20. Robert Bruce

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    Georgy, of my two Bat stoves one has Made in Germaney, the other which has a longer riser on it and I have made a heater out of it has Made In GDR on it. They are collapsible ones. The stove has the same transport plug as yours the other is missing. A bit more info to add to the confusion. image.jpeg image.jpeg