Butterfly 2412 from Indonesia

Discussion in 'Other Countries' started by Marc, May 3, 2019.

  1. Marc

    Marc Subscriber

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    20190502_192118.jpg

    Originally purchased a couple decades ago, I got sucked in by "burns any fuel" and "great survival stove" hype I read from the retailer at the time.

    From day one, it never burned right. Part of this was sheer folly on my part. I don't remember a single thing about priming, and being young(er) and dumb(er), the idea of looking up instructions never even occurred to me. I know I tried diesel in it, I don't remember ever even purchasing kerosene though it may have happened, and it wouldn't surprise me if I tried gasoline too. Hey, multi fuel, right? It got put on a shelf and ignored.

    Inspired by my buddy Josh's recent purchase of the same stove @SSW I dug it out and fired it up. This time with pure clean kero in the tank and some knowledge of what the hell I was doing.

    20190501_171328.jpg

    Welp, that still ain't right.

    Several months later, I broke down and bought a jet wrench, which arrived recently. Installed one of the jets I already had and tweaked the burner a bit more straight.

    20190502_191855.jpg 20190502_192444.jpg

    That's better! Still had slight yellow tips but after ten minutes or so at WOT it cleared up. Over the years one leg disappeared, I borrowed one from my Primus 210 and used a spacer to get the kettle somewhat level for a boil test.

    20190502_192755.jpg

    Easily passed.

    Hardly a classic, but if one's goal is to turn kerosene into BTUs, this is an effective way to do so.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  2. Simes

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    A very satisfying result.
     
  3. DAVE GIBSON

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    I had my Butterfly out the other day.i'm going thru my collection to work
    out which one's i'll take on some short camping trips for photo shoots.
    I bought this some years ago for the same reasons and had the same
    problems.the jet never seemed to fit right.
    lighting it up and cleaning the jet several times and as you can see it
    was the same old problem. 20190429_193057.jpg
     
  4. Marc

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    Jet too large + off to the side seems to be a common thing with these stoves.

    Most people on this site will be aware, but a note that I should have included in the OP for anyone who comes across this site researching this stove:

    These are NOT multi fuel stoves, they are kerosene only.

    Diesel will carbon up your burner but will be no more dangerous than kerosene. Using gasoline is buying a ticket to tour the burn ward at your local trauma center. Not recommended, at all, ever. Looks like the retailers are up to speed on this now, when I bought it, it was touted as a multi fuel stove that could burn any of these things. Simply untrue.
     
  5. HercL4D2

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    I purchased my Butterfly 2412 at St Paul Mercantile the USA importer for Butterfly brand brass pressure stoves and parts. It is described as a Kerosene Stove only and not to be used with any other fuel. There is no wick. I suspect you need a new burner. Replacing the Jet will probably not help if the burner is partially plugged or the jet is enlarged. The manufacturer recommends only the Use of K1 Kerosene. I bought 4 of these back in 2010 @ $45.00 each. I use mine several times a year since and it still works like the first time lit. Kerosene Brass Pressure Stove 2412 Kerosene Brass Pressure Stove Model 2412 [2412] - $75.00 : ST.PAUL MERCANTILE | Cool & Unusual Products
     
  6. DAVE GIBSON

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    a new burner would be the way to go I agree.
    I have a couple I bought a few years ago when
    they were "cheap" on Ebay.
    i'll make that a project and do a post sooner or later.
     
  7. Ed Winskill

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    I've followed many Butterfly/St. Paul Mercantile discussions here over the years. The SPMerc price was always right, and good results seem to have edged out marginal results, if not by much. Nobody complains too much, given the price.

    But I've always wondered: why didn't they just make these things to a high standard in the first place? They had the manufacturing capacity, they had the distribution, etc. Is it that hard to make it just right? I'm a lawyer, not an engineer or manager of manufacturing. What's the issue?
     
  8. Marc

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    New jet alone solved the issue, runs great now.

    Butterfly doesn't build to a higher quality level because people still buy their products how they are.

    I would posit that most of Butterfly's sales are outside the first world. Quality expectations will be different in the third world, ultimate low price more important than quality, and the users will be used to making adjustments and minor repairs from the get-go. Whatever minor complaints we in the USA have with their product won't involve enough of their customer base to bother them.
     
  9. Ed Winskill

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    It makes sense, but what adjustments to processes would be necessary to produce consistently better jets? Tanks, the other apertures, seals, etc. seem to be up to snuff.

    Just curiosity. Is it harder to drill good jets than less good ones? A serious question, actually. Are there significantly more expensive processes to solve this problem?

    I do recognize that Western usage of these things amounts to a drop in the bucket.....
     
  10. Marc

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    The rich flame is probably just not replacing the drill bit when worn.

    The off-center flame could be as simple as a burr pushing fuel vapor off center. That woud line up with the worn drill bit theory too.

    It could also be worn or misaligned jig that holds the jet when it's hole is drilled. A modern CNC lathe with rod feeder, multiple tools, live tooling, etc would bust these out hundreds per hour. Doing it manually, I'd build a holder that the blank jet screws into and chuck that holder into the lathe. Screw the blank jet into it, then drill the hole. Machine out a bucket of jet blanks, then switch tooling and drill holes in your bucket of jet blanks. Could switch jet sizes just by changing drill bits. If that jet holder jig was off, mis-chucked in the lathe, the original threads on the jet cut off center, the chuck had excessive run-out, etc the hole would be off center and so would the flame.

    I'm going to take the old jet to work and use the microscope there, maybe get some better info. Would see a burr for sure.

    Yes it's harder to make good parts than bad ones, but not significantly so and not significantly more expensive. The jet is the one really critical place to get good machining. If I was Butterfly, I'd subcontract. Buy the jets elsewhere or have a better equipped shop make them.

    Even the cheap Indian stoves get the jet right, on a stove that costs half as much.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
  11. Marc

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    Turns out the pot stand legs were just very slightly under ordinary 1/4" diameter stock. 1/4" is 6.35mm and so I bet the legs are 6mm. Either way, 1/4" worked and I have ~100ft of it in my steel rack. Well, 99ft 3 inches now.

    My recreation on the left, original on the right:
    20190509_193243.jpg

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    My recreation underneath, original on top:
    20190509_193332.jpg
    Parallax makes the legs look off but they line up perfectly when the camera is placed parallel to each end.

    End result:
    20190509_193737.jpg

    Yes, the burner is crooked. No clue if it came that way from the factory or if the stove suffered that indignity during it's years of storage/banging around the garage. Badge of honor now.

    Flames are still a bit yellow upon first firing up, clearing within a couple minutes. Still burning the remains of who knows what I put in the tank before.

    I completely forgot to take the jet to work to inspect under the microscope until looking at this thread again.

    Calling this one done. After several years it's now a complete and usable stove. Next step will be something unhealthy cooked on it. Bring on the Spam, taters, and eggs.
     
  12. Afterburner

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    On 90's I was staying in Indonesia quite some time and traveled around there. Newer saw a kerosene stove(Kompor minyak) on use even on a bit remote areas (Sumba, West-Timor or Tana Toraja/Sulawesi). All places they used LPG stoves (Kompor gas).

    At East-Timor/Timor Leste they had kerosene stoves in use at one guest house when I went there on 2013. They used kerosene for priming also. Kitchen had got a bit black color because 3-4 stoves produced quite much soot when they primed the stoves...