California bans Denatured Alcohol, and......!!

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by Doc Mark, Nov 14, 2019.

  1. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    16,883
    Greetings, Fellow Stovies,

    Well, it appears that the "rumor" that CA had banned Denatured Alcohol, are true. The California Air Resources Board, or CARB, has definitely banned Methylated Spirits, and all other Denatured Alcohol fuels!! Looks like the did after a big "teleconference", this past June!!

    The California Air Resources Board Is Considering Further Reductions in Consumer Products’ VOC Content to Reduce California’s Emissions Under the California Clean Air Act - Bick Law LLP

    Note the list of other things they have considered, or are considering banning:

    "CARB is holding public work group teleconferences to evaluate the following products:

    • May 20, 2019 from 10 am to noon — hair finishing spray, no rinse shampoo, permanent dye;
    • May 22, 2019 from 10 am to noon — laundry detergent, liquid fabric softener, dish soap, aerosol cooking spray;
    • May 28, 2019 from 10 am to noon — air fresheners;
    • May 30, 2019, 10 am to noon — nonaerosol general purpose cleaner, nonaerosol general purpose degreaser, aerosol bath and tile cleaner, aerosol glass cleaner; and
    • June 2019 (date and time to be determined for an in-person meeting) — disinfectants, charcoal lighter, scented candle, antiperspirant, deodorant, body spray, personal fragrance with 20% or less fragrance, hand sanitizer, body wash, hand cleaner or soap, hand and body lotion or moisturizer, sunscreen, shampoo, conditioner, analgesics, rubbing alcohol, topical anti-fungal products, nail polish, mouthwash, pet care products such as pet litter, insecticide, denatured alcohol, paint remover/stripper, automotive windshield washer fluid and additive, auto body repair products, and brake cleaner."
    Looks to me as if they have their sights set on just about EVERYTHING!! The City of Berkeley, CA has now passed a law, stating that NO new residents can use Natural Gas!! They want everyone to go "electric". Seems exceedingly short-sighted, as we have NO Utility Companies that can provide uninterrupted electrical service!!! Black-outs, and Brown-outs are becoming commonplace, in some areas, including ours!!

    "Get an electric car", they said; "Get a nice electric cooking stove and oven"; they said, "Go Green", they say: and then they can't provide the "fuel" to keep all that electric stuff running. Let's see, no car, no cooking, and no heat for your house. Seems just about perfect...... NOT!!!!

    On the home front, I was planning on taking plenty of Meths stoves to the upcoming CASG. With NO fuel available, that plans is shot right in the arse!!! :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :rage: :rage: :rage::rage:!!!!

    Our dissatisfaction with this odd-ball, and way off course State, has just moved in to total disgust, and dare I say it, HATE!!! As a member of one of the boating forums wrote:

    "California: Where you can shoot heroin (with a government-supplied needle) in front of SF City Hall, poop on the sidewalk, and buy weed at the corner store, but God forbid you use a plastic straw." (or, use a nice, safe, green fuel, like Methylated Spirits!!!! The future in this crappy State looks bleak, at best.....

    Pissed Off Ol' Doc
     
  2. Ed Winskill

    Ed Winskill United States Subscriber

    Online
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    9,040
    Location:
    Tacoma, Washinghton, USA
    Really unbelievable, beyond satire.

    Keep using your gasoline and kerosene, stop using clean biofuels.

    We are in for decades of insanity; first California, then the nation. The use of environmental pretexts for the unrestricted exercise of political power.
    Has this actually come to pass? In other words, if you go to the hardware store today, there will be no alcohol on sale because of this?
     
  3. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    8,612
    That sums it up Ed, I agree. Usually based on (intentionally?) mangled scientific concepts too.
     
  4. itchy

    Offline
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    3,086
    Agree and Agree. Some aerosol components probably can and should be lowered, although the list does seem extreme. Nevertheless, it is amazing how well pseudoscience and politics work together.
     
  5. dwarfnebula

    dwarfnebula United States Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Messages:
    302
    Location:
    Colorado
    Have you checked with your local racetrack or speed shop? It may be possible to buy methanol race fuel there. Not sure if that’s an affected product but it might still be available.
     
  6. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    16,883
    Hey, All,

    Our local Ace Hardware says that they got notice, from CARB, to remove all such fuels from their shelves, and so far, all attempts by the manufacturer to reformulate those fuels have been rejected by the State!!!

    Doc
     
  7. Duck

    Duck United States Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2018
    Messages:
    373
    Can you use 90% isopropyl alcohol .I use it to pre heat my kerosene stoves
     
  8. Duck

    Duck United States Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2018
    Messages:
    373
    Next time my step son goes to the river I'll see if he can pick some up.
     
  9. Rangie

    Rangie Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,458
    Location:
    Caithness, Far North of Scotland
    Sounds like there is profit in becoming an illegal "Meth" supplier? :twisted:

    Alec.
     
  10. Staffan Rönn

    Staffan Rönn SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2018
    Messages:
    369
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    @Rangie , is that what they call methshining?
     
  11. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2013
    Messages:
    5,886
    Location:
    Stinkpot Bay, Howden, Tasmania, Australia
    Start up them there stills!



    Cheers

    Tony
     
  12. bbsteinle

    bbsteinle United States Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2014
    Messages:
    81
    Location:
    Spokane, WA USA
    The solution is called....Nevada shopping trip.
    Basil
     
  13. Harder D. Soerensen

    Harder D. Soerensen Denmark Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2017
    Messages:
    979
    Location:
    Denmark
    I foresee a large oncoming black market for this. If there is a need and money is available - then that need WILL be covered.
     
  14. Ed Winskill

    Ed Winskill United States Subscriber

    Online
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    9,040
    Location:
    Tacoma, Washinghton, USA
    It's just so discouragingly preposterous, for an everyday useful substance, which is just about as environmentally perfect as anything that burns. Millions have some use for the alcohol, but the constituency is of course tiny overall compared to gasoline, so that's what will get the axe.

    It's handwriting on the wall. We saw the (thankfully transient) thing in Seattle just a few years back when young staffers of a new mayor contrived a ban on beach campfires on environmental grounds, even though wood-burning has nothing to do with the issues.

    For outdoors types such as ourselves, we just have to do our best to be alert to this stuff. I have long predicted that campfires will someday soon find themselves on ban lists for 'climate change' reasons. It's already happening with fireplaces. Coleman fuel could fall under the axe easily with hardly an outcry but from a few geezers....
     
  15. Duck

    Duck United States Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2018
    Messages:
    373
    Ed I have to check online any time I want to have a fire in my fireplace. It's unreal. And they wonder why I Want to leave as soon as I retire. Make room Arizona.
     
  16. Mr.stove

    Mr.stove Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2016
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    San Pedro, California, U.S.A.
    About 2 months ago I tried to buy denatured alcohol at my local Lowe’s and Home Depot . That’s when I found out that it was banned. I went to my local True Value Hardware and they still had some in stock. I bought 3 gallons. I will buy my future needs when I travel out of state. I guess that makes me an alcohol smuggler.☹️
    Gary
     
  17. Ed Winskill

    Ed Winskill United States Subscriber

    Online
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    9,040
    Location:
    Tacoma, Washinghton, USA
    A major issue for all of us here is the social and political power of California, even if only from a marketing standpoint-- large corporations conform their products and procedures to Cal standards because of the enormous size of the Cal market, with a population of 30 million.

    Will Kleen-Strip or other brands of denatured alcohol continue to make and market the stuff anywhere at all if they can't sell in the huge California market, given the low-enough margins and the limited niche?

    Plus politicians and bureaucrats, at least on the West Coast, have a tendency to follow Cal examples over time.
     
  18. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    12,841
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Methanol is not the fuel you want. You want ethanol.

    There must be a reason behind this. Lobbying by someone or some group or some company. I do not believe it for no reason.
    Stupid reason though.

    Rush Limbaugh was mentioning the push for so called clean electric cars, then the power company turning off the power to those that need to evacuate.

    And that electric is not so clean. Look at the toxic crap needed to manufacture all those components. Solar cells and wind turbines still need toxic chemicals to manufacture.
    Pardon my brief statement. I am not one for long post as others do.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  19. Ed Winskill

    Ed Winskill United States Subscriber

    Online
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    9,040
    Location:
    Tacoma, Washinghton, USA
    I doubt very much that there is a strong anti-denatured alcohol lobby.

    I think that if you put a bureaucracy in charge of a brief against volatile organic compounds (I had to look VOC up), or anything else, then they will always be over-inclusive, never under-inclusive.

    Also, history teaches us that planning like this at the bureaucratic level will always fall far short of any understanding of the complexities of what they are dealing with. I doubt, for example, that the people who did this know what a Trangia is, or any other camp or marine stove. My guess is that if they are really paying any attention at all, they think of the substance as a solvent only.

    And, of course, I'd also guess that its importance as a solvent is greater than as a fuel, which is why we find it in the paint sections of the hardware stores.....
     
  20. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    12,841
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Arch, I see that. Thanks.

    Is the bioethanol available in California?
    There is no methanol, it has a bitterant added to make drinking unlikely or impossible.
    Regal Flame is one brand.

    I see a market for black market transporting of alcohol. Not me, just saying.