Coleman 400 (Brown)

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by Seamanjive, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. Seamanjive United Kingdom

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    Fellow Fettlers

    I recently acquired an early Coleman 400 (brown) stove. Its in OK shape generally although the previous owner did say that "Pressurizes correctly & pressure present at red generator pipe valve side, but not passing vapour past black valve on opposite side".

    On inspection the stove does indeed pressurise, better after a bit of oil on the cup.

    Unable to ignite and no smell or presence of escaping fuel after I filled up and pressurised.

    Removed generator, checked needle and jet, clean out, all OK. I applied torch to the generator and burned out/tapped out some crud. Looking good, reassembled, but on pressurising no fuel passing thru generator.

    Remove generator again, repressuried and opened main valve. Fount is still 3/4 full. Just little spurts/tiny drops of fuel, some air, certainly no spout of fuel. reapplied torch to generator, pricked jet etc.

    Suspecting that the pickup tube is blocked I attempted to unscrew the valve assembly for inspection - but I cant move it. I think there is loc-tite of something on the threads, dont think its ever been off.

    Next, I drained the fount, filled with meths and swished around. Left it a while, pressurised and opened valve but again just a few spits.

    I understand that the meths needs up to 24 hours to work thru any varnishing in the fount so will try again in the morning.

    Meantime, any thoughts on other steps i can take ?

    Thanks for reading...

    James
     
  2. HercL4D2

    HercL4D2 Subscriber

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    You need to strip the stove down to where the Valve is only item installed. DO NOT use any wrenches. Place the tank upside down and the valve body in a Vise with a rag to prevent damage too the valve body surface. Turn the tank counter clockwise until it breaks loose. Turn until valve is loose enough to remove by hand. Permatex 2 or plumbers dope to reinstall.

    You will need a new generator. Yours is permanently plugged. Good luck trying to get it cleaned out.
     
  3. Seamanjive United Kingdom

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    Mmmmm... as I suspected..on both counts !

    Dont think the generators are available anywhere for these models !

    Do you think my soaking in denatured alchohol will achieve anything?

    Could the schroder valve be stuck ? Can it be removed, it doesnt seem to move much when I try to push it down ? I can get a schroder valve removal tool from a local cycle shop .

    Thx for your response.

    J
     
  4. HercL4D2

    HercL4D2 Subscriber

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    You can replace the valve with one from a 400b stove, this will also need a mount bracket for a generator different from the one your stove came with. The new generator I am listing has a hook that will connect to the eyelet of the new valve. At least you will get this stove up and working while you find parts to repair your old valve and generator. Alcohol does not do an effective job of removing fuel lacquer, and nothing works to remove carbon deposits except the surface of the SUN and a torch. Use carburetor cleaner, also place carb cleaner in the pump tube with the pump removed and let is soak the lacquer deposits from the check valve ball and the air tube to the top of the tank. After a day soaking place some carb cleaner into the pump tube and install the pump and push the carb cleaner into the tank and clear the check valve and the air tube.
    Diagram 400B701: http://www.oldcolemanparts.com/diagrams/400B701J.jpg
    Valve:OldColemanParts.com :: Stove Parts :: Valve Assy
    Bracket:OldColemanParts.com :: Stove Parts :: Generator Bracket New Style
    Generator:OldColemanParts.com :: Just Generators :: Generator Stove

    Diagram: 400A701 Same as your brown 400 just ^A^ designates Black paint.
    http://www.oldcolemanparts.com/diagrams/400A701.jpg
    Valve Core:OldColemanParts.com :: Lantern Parts :: 275 Valve Core






















    A designates it came in Black paint.
    http://www.oldcolemanparts.com/diagrams/400A701.jpg
     
  5. Seamanjive United Kingdom

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    Coleman 400 update...drained the fount this evening, 24 hour soak in meths. As I had the generator off I pressurised the stove and opened the valve...spits of meths. Not promising.
    Reinstalled the generator, pumped her up and opened the valve. A bit of a hiss, applied a flame and shes away! No leaks, bit of yellow flame. More pumping, adjust the pricker and it's looking good. I think the burner plates could do with a clean up as they were very rusty...but it runs. Left it 15 mins, holds pressure but not sure its making full output.
    Juggled the cleaning rod a bit and got a flare up. Closed it down.
    A bit more fettling tomorrow and I think we have a live one!
     
  6. BradB

    BradB United States Subscriber

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    Good luck. I have had poor luck trying to revive any of the curved Coleman generators. Coleman meant them to be replacement items, which does not bode well for us collectors/users. When they are no longer available the stoves are dead. Brad
     
  7. Seamanjive United Kingdom

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    Er...hold fire...could resist giving it another go tonight and we seem to be back to square one! I suspect that the fount is full of crap.

    Next...
     
  8. Seamanjive United Kingdom

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    Ok, quick torch to the generator, quench cold. Refit gen. Its away again! Now been burning 30 mins. Only prob is a bit of flame around the flame adjustment lever when cleaning. Tightened the assembly a bit more. It think its expanded with the heat. Is there some packing in there? Not sure its serviceable.
    I can adjust down to about half with out a small flare but I feel it's a bit dangerous. I'll torque it up a bit more when it cools.
     
  9. Seamanjive United Kingdom

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    Pics

    15715028277765394113866987323138.jpg 15715028634534437586171995516108.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2019
  10. HercL4D2

    HercL4D2 Subscriber

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    There is graphite packing in there. Just tighten the flame adjustment lever nut 1/4 turn.
     
  11. Seamanjive United Kingdom

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    Could the packing have been damaged when I recently hit the generator with a torch to clear the carbon? The control lever still turns easily so I guess I still have a bit of take up. I've settled this thing from a point where it was was totally not working. Would hate to screw it up now...is it possible to over tighten (I dont mean to the point of stripping the threads).
     
  12. Seamanjive United Kingdom

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    Fettled....
     
  13. HercL4D2

    HercL4D2 Subscriber

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    Your not going to burn out Graphite with a torch. Graphite is used to make a crucible to melt iron, steel, nickel, gold, copper, brass and more. Just turn the adjustment lever nut 1/4 turn to see if the flame goes away and your good to go. I suppose you can strip the threads if you have bottomed out and continue to tighten. Eventually your going to have to replace the generator. Your flame shot with the red colors is showing the generator is about to quit working. There should be a blue flame with no yellow or red coloring present. Only Coleman fuel or drip gas is to be used in these stoves.
    Search your country for a new generator, there may be some tucked away in a boat shop or sporting good store. They are all exhausted here in the USA.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
  14. Seamanjive United Kingdom

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    Good call on the graphite...

    The red you can see is actually the pot stand support gliding red hot from the heat given off by the stove. Other than some initial yellow flame on start-up I've been pretty happy (and surprised) with the "blueness" of the flame. It's dark here now (London)...I might give her a tighten and see what's going on...and check for red!
    Thx for your input!
     
  15. Seamanjive United Kingdom

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    Glowing red hot!
     
  16. Seamanjive United Kingdom

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    Gave it another go this morning after a bit of a tweak on the flame adjust...but it wouldnt light. Rather than remove the gen, clean it out etc I just applied the torch to the generator in place for a minute. Opened the valve and shes up and running! Totally impractical as I wont be taking a torch out with me. Maybe a bit of alcohol preheat would work...
     
  17. JP2

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    Hi, have you tried the method used to decooke a burner? You know the one that you let air go through at the same time you warm up. The idea is to burn the carbon inside.
     
  18. Seamanjive United Kingdom

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    Yes, done that a few times. I don't have any means to force air through while I heat it up but it seems to have helped. I put a drop of RedEx injector cleaner into the tank, preheated the generator and it fired up...a bit sluggishly. It seems to get better each time I ignite it so we are going in the right direction!
     
  19. Seamanjive United Kingdom

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    Generator off, properly tighten flame adjust gland with decent wrench. Soak in white vinegar for 15 mins then heat over domestic gas cooker burner and quench. Blow thru with a bit of WD40, rinse again with vinegar and blow thru...looking good.
    Vinegar down main valve stem then a bit of WD40 and work the valve. The stove is empty of fuel so pump away to force cleaning stuff out of valve.
    Fill tank with Aspen 4, twenty five pumps, open the valve, apply flame and shes away! Pump up to working pressure.
    Warmed up, blue flame ring, very controlable, working like new!
    No leaks, no flares, no probs!
    Close it down after 15 mins, let it cool. Try again. No probs!
    I think I fixed what was a dead brown 400 !
    I paid £14 for this one. No parts required, just a bit of work and determination really!
     
  20. JP2

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    Well done