Heinze Geniol Dutch Army

Discussion in 'Petromax & Aida' started by Dutch_Peter, Aug 22, 2014.

  1. Dutch_Peter

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    Maybe more of a youngtimer than a classic, but it sure is a liquid filled pressure stove .. There aren't too many reviews of it here on CCS, so let's add one.
    It's a very bulky stove, measuring 27,5 x 27,5 x 14 centimeter in size and weighs around 4.5 kg without fuel. Yet the burner is relatively small.

    The working parts are a mix of Optimus and Petromax parts. That is good news for serviceability, as these parts are easy to purchase or taken from other stoves/lamps.

    Petromax parts on this stove:
    The "Rapid" preheater and the manometer (pressure meter) are the same as on Petromax pressure lamps and work accordingly. Geniol also makes (or made) these lamps. Upon disassembly of the preheater it shows that the pickup tube is bent, whilst it is straight on a Petromax lamp.
    It comes with spanners, a jet removal tool, a pricker and a bag of spares. The bag holds a jet, NRV, pump leather and rings/seals.
    The jet removal tool looks like a Primus NRV tool, but the NRV is (again) a Petromax NRV and unscrews with a flat screwdriver. The pump assembly appears to be Petromax as well, although I haven't tested interchangeability.

    Optimus parts:
    Researching old posts here on CCS learns that it's a 207B burner, the same used on f.i. the Optimus 5R and 535. This has some interesting consequences:
    1) An internal cleaning needle and jet can be installed from an Optimus 111 or an Optimus 535.
    2) Burner and jet are interchangeable with Optimus (Primus) brand stoves, which is good news if spares are needed.
    3) Output is around 2,5 to 3 kW, depending on the jet.

    The instruction plate instructs to use F65 fuel. This is a military designation for diesel. I had it running on paraffin and it works just fine. Paraffin seems the better fuel choice, since both Petromax lamps and Optimus stoves run on paraffin and not on diesel. The plate on the German version says that it's for both paraffin and diesel. As with other paraffin stoves, I suspect that it's not happy to run on diesel and will clog up.

    The instructions are in Dutch. Basically it's similar to starting a pressure lamp:
    0) Check that everything is in closed position.
    1) Unscrew the manometer and pour fuel in.
    2) Tighten the manometer and its vent screw. Check that the burner is closed (turned to "Zu").
    3) Pump up to pressure until the meter reaches the red line on the manometer.
    -- Check for leaks. If so, close screws or replace leaking seals.
    4) To light: Open the preheater and light the fuel coming out.
    -- Alternatively I think that the dimple in the fuel tank (below the burner) can be filled with methylated spirit to preheat. Then the Rapid preheater is not needed.
    5) Let the preheater run for about 90 seconds.
    6) Open the fuel valve (turn to "Auf") and shut the preheater. Light the burner by hand if not lighted by the preheater.
    7) Pump to add pressure.

    NATO Stock Number / Military ID number: NSN 7310-12-187-4098

    Finally I'd like to ask y'all:
    1) Does anyone know how to date these stoves?
    2) Has anyone experience with it running on diesel? Automotive fuel (at least gasoline) is known to clog up stoves and I'm keen to know if anyone knows from experience if it can be used with diesel without problems in the long run.
    3) Are Optimus and Petromax NRV's interchangeable?


    Pictures:
    1408661951-Heinze_layout.jpg

    1408662013-layout_front.jpg

    Above: Front with pump, burner and preheater

    1408662134-burner_preheater.jpg

    Above: Rapid preheater with burner

    1408662180-manometer.jpg

    Above: Manometer. Pump until the red line has been reached ..

    1408662390-Rapid_preheater.jpg

    Above: Rapid preheater disassembly. Note the bent fuel pickup tube compared to a Petromax lamp.

    1408662257-toolkit.jpg

    Toolkit and tools

    1408662283-tools.jpg

    1408662314-instruction_plate.jpg

    Instructions "Bedieningsvoorschrift"

    1408662345-Optimus_00_on_Heinze.jpg

    Size compared to an Optimus 00 ..

    1408662492-preheat.jpg

    Preheating: The "Rapid" in action.

    1408662530-flameshot.jpg

    And a flameshot :D/

    Cheers,
    Peter
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2015
  2. Pinky

    Pinky Subscriber

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    Excellent review Peter!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

    This is a stove high on my wish list, and you've answered a lot of questions I've had about it.

    Great addition to the reference gallery! :thumbup:

    Thanks for such a fantastic post, and congrats on such a fine stove! =P~
     
  3. Rdug113

    Rdug113 Subscriber

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    Niiiice stove. Thanx for sharing.
     
  4. kerry460

    kerry460 Australia Subscriber

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    G,,day and thanks for posting that , a fascinating stove with some very nice features ,
    its all there in one container and no alcohol for preheating .

    I would love to find one , but I am not going to hold my breath waiting .

    cheers,
    kerry
     
  5. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr Subscriber

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    Chuck had one at the NE stove meet the last 2 years, that I was there. It is a definite work horse, and very nice to look at.

    Thanks,
    Ken in NC
     
  6. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark Subscriber

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    Hi, Dutch Peter,

    Oh, yes, those Geniol Dutch Army stoves are outstanding!!! I have one, unfired, and the temptation to fire it up and use it has always been very strong!! Someday, maybe I'll find another one, and can have a "looker", and a "user"! [-o< [-o< :thumbup: 8) :D :D Thank you for your great report and the excellent photos, Peter!! This stove, in so many ways, stands alone for what it can do, and how it works, IMHO. Thanks, again, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  7. Big BTU

    Big BTU Subscriber

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    Great write up Peter! You are lucky to have one so complete with all the wrenches and parts.

    I really like the donut shape of them too.
     
  8. Admin

    Admin Courtesy of Iani

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    The burners on these stoves are not Swedish in origin
     
  9. threedots New Zealand

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    Hello Peter.
    Great topic and I really like that stove. :mrgreen:
    John
     
  10. Lighthouse

    Lighthouse Sweden Subscriber

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    Great gallery post - perfect. Lovely photo's as well.
    This is the kind of information I'd like to see at CCS.

    You asked about a possible date for this stove.
    The closest to a possible date code I could get was this German site which lists a Heinze Geniol as being made in the early 1980's.
    http://www.lampenmaxe.de/geniolkocher.php

    Thank you very much for sharing this stove here.

    Frank
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2015
  11. Afterburner

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    From here you can get quite good spare kit for burner. It's for Optimus boat stove that has also 207 burner so there is some seals that you would not need...

    http://hytta.de/kocher/795.htm

    He also sells those parts individually.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2015
  12. Dutch_Peter

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    Hi,

    Thank you for your great comments !! I've enjoyed reading them very much. :thumbup:
    I'm in the right location :mrgreen: since the German and Dutch armies have these stoves. Army dump stores have a batch to sell once in a while, or people find it in the attic and put it up for sale on a local auction site like Craigslist. Fortunately Ebay hasn't caught on yet in NL .. :whistle:
    Iani you are right and it's good to note that the burners are not Swedish in origin. Thank you for adding.
    Various German sites (like the one Frank shows) date these stoves to the 1980's, although these dates seem difficult to verify.

    Peter
     
  13. Afterburner

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    German ebay has those for sale all the time. With search words "petroleum kocher" new and used come up with "buy it now" and auction options.

    Here up North armies are dumping kerosene powered stoves and lanterns so time to time it's possible to make good pick ups in Army's "clear out auctions". :content:
     
  14. Warempel

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    Hello Dutch Peter ,

    About your second question (Diesel) ;

    we used only Diesel (F65) in "the days" somewhere in Germany on field excercises.

    Never a problem!!
     
  15. YOSH

    YOSH Subscriber

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    Hi,

    My GENIOL stove's burner cup has dented.
    So,I'm looking for GENIOL burner up. IMG_2222.JPG

    Please let me know which Optimus stove's burner cup can use?

    Thanks,
     
  16. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr Subscriber

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    I would think Geniol caps would be available from some seller in Germany.
     
  17. YOSH

    YOSH Subscriber

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  18. teckguy_58

    teckguy_58 United States Subscriber

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  19. YOSH

    YOSH Subscriber

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    @teckguy_58

    Hi,
    Thank you for your helps!
    I got 205 inner and outer cap the bay.

    Thanks again,
    Yosh
     
  20. woodyoumind

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    good times Gentlemen
    I just received a Heinze/Geniol cooker I ordered in Germany, I immediately named it ¨Shrek¨. Can I use Coleman fuel in it if I change the jet?