Help to identify my Primus please!

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by Eben, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. Eben

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    Can anyone id my stove?

    * No markings on bottom of tank.
    * "Made under licence from AB BAHCO".
    * air screw stamped "Primus" on both sides
    * riser tube has number "503166" stamped on it 20200105_225433.jpg 20200105_225433.jpg 20200105_225408.jpg 20200105_225358.jpg 20200105_225350.jpg 20200105_225334.jpg
     
  2. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi, @Eben ,

    Well, your burner is marked, "Hipolito", from Portugal. The tank, as marked, was made in Portugal "under license" to Primus. Hipolito did make burners for Optimus, if memory serves, years later, so it's possible that Hipolito is your company for both burner, and tank. Just a guess, and only my 'tuppence. I look forward to hearing what others think. Thanks for sharing, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  3. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi, very interesting stove.

    It is tempting to believe that the Number sequence 503166 stamped on the riser tube indicates a manufacturing date of 1966. Primus products made in Sweden ceased to have date stamps of this form in 1964 but it seems possible that Primus stoves produced under license continued the practice for longer:

    Primus Dating Chart 1911 - 1964

    The stove you show is fitted with a roarer burner and if the tank capacity is 2 imperial pints the stove is likely a Primus No.1.

    During 1955 the then makers of Primus stoves, A/B B A Hjorth & Co changed their name to A B Bahco. The BAHCO designation was used from 1955 onwards.

    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
  4. Eben

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    Thank you for that dating chart!

    I had a look again at the numbers on the riser, this time with a magnifying glass, and the last number is NOT a 6 but looks to be rather a 3, so 1963 from the chart. The burner is marked "hipolito" and "made in Portugal" 20200106_063925.jpg
     
  5. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi @Eben Thank you for the correction regarding the date code. i think we can safely assume that your stove was made in 1963.
    It is possible that BAHCO provided certain stove parts to Hipolito as part of the licence agreement.

    Your stove, was made in 1963, after the formation of the Primus Trading Co.:

    “Finally in 1962 Primus stopped production of all paraffin and petrol stoves and AB Optimus acquired the rights to produce and market the stoves under the Primus trademark from Bahco.”

    From this thread:

    https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/ab-primus-b-a-hjorth-co-bahco.7/


    It seems possible that some Primus stoves were still legally produced under pre-existing Licences in certain countries and regions. We do know that Primus stoves were produced in some African countries afer the formation of the PTC.

    We know that Hipolito had licence agreements with other pressure stove and lamp companies but I was previously unaware of a BAHCO Licence.

    “From about 1974 and through the 1980s to about the mid 1990s, Hipolito made Aida and Petromax lanterns (by arrangement with Graetz Vertriebsgesellschaft mbH [Petromax]) and their own branded product. Hipolito lanterns continued to be made up to June 1999 when the company went into liquidation.”

    From this post:

    https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/casa-hipólito-sa.93/

    It would be useful if @Staffan Rönn could comment about any Portuguese connection that BAHCO had.

    As I said, an interesting stove.

    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  6. ArchMc

    ArchMc SotM Winner Subscriber

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    I feel like I must be missing something obvious. Where is the tank marked as made in Portugal?

    ....Arch
     
  7. goldwinger11

    goldwinger11 United States Subscriber

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    @Eben seeing the Lion matches in your pic leads me to believe that you’re from South Africa. It could possibly be that the stove was manufactured under license to Primus.
     
  8. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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  9. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark SotM Winner Subscriber

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    @Eben ,

    I think @kerophile is onto something, here. I have a stove that's made in South Africa, under license from Optimus (I think), and if memory serves, it's marked very similarly to your Primus. I'll have to dig it out and check, to make sure my old memory is not playing tricks on me.

    @ArchMc , Mac, I was only offering a supposition, and a guess, based on the burner markings, and the info I stated above. I could be far out on a very slender limb, saw in hand. I'll try to dig out the stove I mentioned above, and compare the markings. As SVEA allowed their stoves to be made under license, Down Under, it appears, that Optimus and Primus also allowed their stoves, and lanterns to be made under license, too. I hope that @Staffan Rönn might be able to shine more light on the specifics of such dealings, by Optimus, if possible.

    Sorry, I fumbled my comments to make it seem that Eben's stove was marked in a way that it was not. Poor phrasing on my part. I'm sure more info will come to hand, sooner, or later, and we'll know more facts about his stove. Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  10. Lennart F Sweden

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    If it was under license from Bahco in 1963, it should be licensed from Optimus later than 1963 so that make sense @Doc Mark if your stove is similar.
     
  11. OMC

    OMC United States Subscriber

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    I've followed along and will go back to just trying to follow along.
    Thank you Eben for posting it and to all for input.
    I suggest, replacement burner is identified and that it is the details of "the Primus" stove (tank), non Sweden manufactured, that is now of interest. The where it was made (by who) remains a mystery.

    As I follow along I wonder if this is an avenue that members have not delved into (as far as i know) and that is the following.
    Those of us familiar to varying degress with Primus / Optimus history may recall c1962 formation of Primus Trading AB but have we ever focused on latter **portion, pertaining to manufacturing outside Sweden?:
    "... in 1962 Primus stopped production of all paraffin and petrol stoves and AB Optimus acquired the rights to produce and
    **market the stoves under the Primus trademark from Bahco.
    "

    Might Eben's stove, be from a pre-63 production "under license form AB Bahco".
    Might such a (profitable) operation outside of Sweden continue ***unchanged (in this case 'til 66...). ***One transparent difference being that Optimus replaced Primus/Bahco as licensee.
    Wondering if this stove represents a sliver of pre62 to '66... manufacturing that has seen little/no discussion?
    -------------------------------------
    An above comment may gain traction and maybe not but
    w/that I am out, peace.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  12. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Greetings, All,

    Well, once again, my aging memory is a bit fuzzy! I could not get to the stove I have, as the Hobbit Hole is crammed full, and don't have time to shuffle stuff around to reach the stove in question. But, I bought the stove I mentioned, from our old friend, and former CCS member, Al Gentry. And, using that info, I cast about here today, and found his thread from back when HE had originally bought that stove!! Turns out, it was a Primus, and it does, indeed, seem to have been made under license, "some where"!! Check this out:

    Primus What?

    As to where it was made, that's still up for discussion. But, South Africa was mentioned, as was South America. But, no firm information has so far come to hand. When time permits, I'll get to that stove, and take better photos than what were posted in the thread above. That might help, or might not.... We'll see. Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  13. Staffan Rönn

    Staffan Rönn SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    Hi @kerophile , @Doc Mark and everyone else,

    Sorry for being late on the ball, I have been out and about.

    My guess regarding the Hipolito burner is that it is simply a replacement burner. I cannot remember having seen anything on a cooperation between Bacho/Primus and Hipolito.

    When Optimus took over the Primus line in October 1962, some things can be noted:
    - First of all the transfer was not immediate but gradual over two years until end 1964. As a general note Bacho still made several Primus appliances in the Hagfors factory, but Optimus was selling them (through the subsidiary Primus Trading), until the transfer was complete.
    - There were several licens agreements in place when Optimus took over. These license agreements were still valid after the take over, and have then gradually with time lapsed or been cancelled. In the take over agreement from 1962, the following countries with license agreements are listed and kept outside of the deal: Norway, South Africa, South West Africa, Central African Federation, India, Peru and Uruguay. The stove in this thread could consequently have been manufactured under one of these license set-ups. I posted a lot of documentation around the 1962 agreement only a few days ago here: https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/optimus-primus-1962-agreement-with-prelude.42866/ Unfortunately documentation is in Swedish.
    - One special note is on Peru as in this case Primus - and later Optimus - manufactured parts for the stoves. I have seen notes that for example burners were produced in Sweden for the Peru manufacturing. The forecast for 1963 was a delivery of sets of parts for a quantity of 125.000 stoves, so Peru manufacturing was quite significant. The Peru license agreement was cancelled some time in 1966 for (to me) unknown reasons.
     
  14. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi @Staffan Rönn , many thanks for all this information.
    If the post originates in Southern Africa, or has connections with that region, the mystery may be solved.
    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
  15. Eben

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    Thanks all, most interesting reading from you experts!

    Yes, I am from South Africa, and have a few Tilley lamps too. Have a beautiful small Primus camp stove too, think called the model 96 from 1955, according to the dating chart.

    Into motorcycles too, and have among others, old helmets (Nava Integralle 2, Bell, Slazenger, Cromwell)

    Cheers!
     
  16. ArchMc

    ArchMc SotM Winner Subscriber

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    @Eben Obviously you got us all thinking. Stoves can definitely be, as @kerophile says, a fascinating subject.

    Welcome to CCS!

    ....Arch
     
  17. goldwinger11

    goldwinger11 United States Subscriber

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    @Eben That stove of yours has seen a lot of use. My money is on the stove being made in South Africa under license to A B Bahco/Primus. For the interest of the members, These stoves were used predominantly by the native population during the Apartheid era. They were found on almost every street corner so to speak. Sadly they have all but disappeared.