Help with estate sale find

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by Hoppinjohn, Mar 4, 2017.

  1. Hoppinjohn

    Offline
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    3
    Ok, please forgive me in advance - I'm not a stove collector, so bear with me if I ask some obvious questions. I recently made an impulse buy at an estate sale on a box of camping stoves. I was already familiar with several (like some older Sveas, an Optimus 99, an XGK, etc.), and using this site I was able to find out more about some that were new to me (like a Firefly, a Stesco, and a Borde - and man, is that thing scary looking!). But, there were a few older MSR stoves in the box that I'm still having some difficulty trying to completely nail down, so I'm hoping for some help.

    My first question is about these two. Based on everything I've read here, I think this first one is a Model G, maybe an early one? Blue-colored body, bakelite base, no date stamp, rod in the fuel tube, and a skinny little sheet-metal type nut on the sparker. Came with a light colored yellow pump.
    upload_2017-3-4_13-53-36.png


    This one is virtually the same, and until I started looking more closely I thought they were exactly the same.
    upload_2017-3-4_13-54-14.png


    In this side-by-side shot, you can see that the catch arm is shorter on the one on the left. (The body color is somewhat lighter, but I think it’s just faded from heavy use.) It also came with instructions for the Model 9 tucked into the side of the burner, but I understand that since the bell isn’t scalloped, it's not a Model 9. Does this make it a 9A? What the heck is the difference between a 9A and a G anyway?
    upload_2017-3-4_13-55-19.png


    There are more differences between the two pumps. The pump that came with the stove with the short catch arm (on top) is a dark yellow and has a metal pick up tube, as compared to the lighter yellow and plastic dip tube for what I'm pretty sure is the Model G.
    upload_2017-3-4_13-56-11.png


    More differences in the pumps in this side-by-side: there's what looks like brass pins on the dark yellow pump that are absent from the light yellow pump, and a different collar.
    upload_2017-3-4_13-57-5.png

    Not sure if any of this makes a difference or not. Just curious about what the heck I got.

    Thanks in advance for any help!
     
  2. Caveman

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2014
    Messages:
    183
    Location:
    Tauranga
    Good morning and welcome,
    Congratulations on your find:clap: I picked up a G for very little but have not yet had the time to fettle and get it going. I was warned off using the pale yellow pump it came with...high potential for a leaky mess and fireball that melts your pump and burns your tent down. My expectation is to get the pump and stove working safely for a run then get a newer pump for expeditions.
    @Doc Mark is a well known oracle on MSR stoves. I'm sure he and several other senior fettlers will chip in on this topic.
    Cheers
    B
     
  3. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    18,350
    Hey, @Hoppinjohn ,

    You are on the right track. I'm down the mountain right now, but can answer your questions when I get back home. Too onerous, on a cell phone. Talk later & congrats on your score! I assume you will probably sell them off, right? Take are & GodBless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  4. 8R Pete

    8R Pete United States Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    580
    Location:
    New Jersey
    The pump with the pins are more rare than the other pump without the pins. I got the same yellow pump without the pins. I also think the stoves with the bakelite base are a G model. I been told that I have a XG-not the XGK with the shaker jet. Its funny seeing that stove-I worked in an outdoor store and in the camping dept. and saw those stoves sit on the shelf-I think we sold 1 the whole 2 years I worked there. The Coleman stoves were the most popular and so were the Svea 123 R stoves.
     
  5. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    16,547
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Both stoves have a rod in the fuel line? Not a cable?
    IIRC that makes them both a 9A. The cable came as a new version called "Field Maintainable Stove." That was the "G" and "GK"

    @Doc Mark will clarify with a much better description and in much greater detail.
    There are quite a few good discussions about those details on several threads here.

    Oh, welcome to CCS.

    Ken in NC
     
  6. hikerduane

    hikerduane Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    7,654
    Use them.
    Duane
    IMG_0724.JPG
     
  7. geeves

    geeves New Zealand Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Messages:
    6,101
    Location:
    Christchurch NZ
    8 stoves
    welcome to our newest collector
    there are 4 stoves in that list Ive been looking for for many years
     
  8. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    16,547
    Location:
    North Carolina
    In my Star Wars Jedi voice......
    There's nothing of interest here. You don't want the Borde. Send it to North Carolina.

    Ken in North Carolina
     
  9. zeke79

    Offline
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    76
    I found a gk the other day with a pinned pump. No date on the fuel block. In the box with windscreen, directions, alcohol bottle etc and thought I was doing good but your find is way better!
     
  10. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    18,350
    Morning, @Hoppinjohn ,

    Are you still around? Haven't heard a peep out of you, since yesterday. I'll be brief in my answers to your questions, just in case you have lost interest, or have already disposed of these stoves.

    In a nutshell, telling a model 9A from a model G is very easy. In 1975, MSR replaced the Model 9 with the 9A. The 9A offered an improved pump, and a recommendation NOT to burn auto gas, due to extreme clogging. The 9A had a solid, non-removeable rod in it's fuel line. The model G and GK debuted in 1978, with updated names, and with removable, braided cable added to the fuel lines of both models, so that they were totally field maintainable, which, for the GK, mean that it once again, auto gas could be burned in the that stove. Also, most of the time, but not always (as this part is easily replaceable) the model 9A has a circlip on the pump securing arm, and the model G has a flat compression washer. Also, the jets on the Model 9A, and Model G are completely different, with the 9A being very small, and set rather deeply into the burner bell, whilst the Model G jet being much larger, and much wider at the top. Also, the 9A sparker has a larger, more flat-ended knob, whilst the striker on the Model G has a smaller, more sleek knob, with a smaller flat on the end. Colors of the stove bodies are not of much concern, as they changed, back and forth, over the years.

    As to the pumps, they are, respectively, the third (with metal fuel pick-up tube), and fourth (with plastic fuel pick-up tube) pumps that MSR offered with their sale line of stoves. Many of them "can" be rebuilt, with care, and are still usable. In fact, I used to offer that service for any and all who owned such pumps, at no charge, just to make sure the job was done safely. Sadly, because there will always be those to misuse, or abuse their stoves, and due to liability reasons, in addition to my now heavy work-load in our business, I no longer offer that service. Suffice it to say, the pumps "can" be rebuilt, but I now recommend that only be done by those who are deeply experienced and good fettlers. Too many things can, and WILL go wrong when mistakes, or shoddy work, is done!!! I now recommend that you keep the older pumps, just for history sake, then buy and use the latest MSR pumps, which are far more robust, can be easily field maintained, and will not break as easily as some of the older pumps can. Safety is the key work, here, and we all should practice safety when using pressure stoves with flammable fuels!!

    I hope that answers your questions, and wish you good luck in either using your stoves, or in selling them. Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  11. 8R Pete

    8R Pete United States Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    580
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Bravo Doc Mark! Well said!
     
  12. Hoppinjohn

    Offline
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    3
    Wow! I'm surprised to see so many responses so quickly! Thanks for all the help to identify these two and all the little details. Really, really appreciate it! This is a whole new world to me, as up until last week I had only one stove - my 1980s-era Svea - and now I've got what seems like a ton. So here's the rest of the haul.

    This is the XGK. It has "111 282" stamped on the block, which I take to mean that it was made in Feb 1982. It came with the only the XG jet, a partial maintenance kit, instructions and a large brown-colored stuffsack with an MSR tag (and an equally large Sigg fuel bottle). Based on the condition, I'm thinking this one was a regular "user" stove while the others are mainly for show.
    upload_2017-3-5_13-33-34.png
    upload_2017-3-5_13-34-9.png

    This is the Firefly. It seems complete, but does not have the suspension kit. The air hose on the pump looks new. It's wicked cool looking when all set up, but seems like it would take up a HUGE amount of space in the backpack.
    upload_2017-3-5_13-36-2.png

    Next are four early Whisperlites. Based on the hose color, I'm reckoning that the one with the white hose is the first version (c. 1984), the red is the second version (mid-80s), and the black is the third version (c. 1987). The one on the far right is an Internationale, which I guess is the first version of that model. (Not pictured are two other Whisperlites with a black hose, and a later Internationale with a metal hose.)
    upload_2017-3-5_13-37-8.png

    Here are two Sveas - Sievert on the left, Optimus on the right. Both are complete with cups, pot handles, and prickers. I take it the Sievert version is kind of sought after.
    upload_2017-3-5_13-38-35.png

    And another Svea - a 123R with an Optimus cookset (which I think makes this an Optimus 124). Unpictured are two larger Sigg Tourist-type cooksets that were made in Taiwan.
    upload_2017-3-5_13-39-11.png

    Here's a fake Svea (who knew? Not me!). It's marked "Pak Cook 235" on the fuel tank. It appears to be complete with instructions, handle and while plastic funnel.
    upload_2017-3-5_13-40-36.png

    An Optimus 99 and a copy marked only that it was made in Taiwan. And a mini pump.
    upload_2017-3-5_13-41-22.png

    Here’s a little-used Optimus 323. From what I've read, there’s a reason for that.
    upload_2017-3-5_13-42-20.png

    upload_2017-3-5_13-44-14.png

    This is the Stesco. Not sure what I think about this one - seems kind of delicate, even flimsy, to me. I don't think this would be my first choice for an extended backpacking trip, or maybe even a short one. Backyard - maybe.
    upload_2017-3-5_13-45-58.png

    Lastly, a Primus 71 ("AK" date code, which based on the chart is 1946). And the Borde - albeit incomplete (no control rod or pot stand). Still kind of scary-looking though!
    upload_2017-3-5_13-49-36.png

    Also included was a Coleman 530, but in pieces (so no picture), which I assume was in the process of being restored. I think I'm going to hang on to these and play with them for a bit, and not sell them - although I will probably part with the duplicate Whisperlites, and maybe the Sigg Tourist knock-offs.

    Thanks again everyone for all the help! This is site is a great resource, and without it I would've been scratching my head for a long time trying to figure out what I picked up at the sale.
     
  13. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    16,547
    Location:
    North Carolina
    The Borde need not be scary.
    Do a bit of research and I think you will find it to be an awesome stove. Disregard the idiots on that video site. There are some really good videos there, too.

    @presscall made a tool to adjust it.

    I made a pot stand with hinge. But there should be easy ways to configure a pot stand/windscreen to use it.

    Carefully unscrew the 'spindle' and see that the 4 sided tip is there. It is hidden below the jet area. Sometimes, often I hear, they are broken.
    @presscall did a repair of one recently.

    The fill cap is a metal to metal seal, so be careful with that, too.

    You probably already know of a 'Dunk Test'. The Borde can be tested that way. Being cold then put in warm/hot water, you should not have any bubbles/leaks unless the valve is opened. Hotter water would result in a better test, as in more pressure.

    Or, just send it to me. :)
     
  14. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    18,350
    @Hoppinjohn ,

    WOW! An instant collection!! I would imagine that the previous owner may have been a member here. Where in the US did you score these goodies? Do you know the name of the previous owner? I am happy for your good fortune, but worry that one of our Stove Mates may have passed away, without us knowing about it. Any info you could share, to we can check to see if the previous owner was "one of our own", would be greatly appreciated! Again, great score, and have fun learning all about each stove!! Spend a bunch of time in the Stove Reference Gallery, and the Stove Reference Library, and you will pretty much learn whatever you wish to know. A small caveat, however: Along with the excellent information to be found here, there is a huge dose of opinion, too. Be sure you winnow through the chaff, to get to the real wheat of the matter!! ;) :thumbup: Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc (Been known to have an opinion, or three, himself!)
     
  15. monkeyboy

    Offline
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2010
    Messages:
    565
    Location:
    Norte Mudzoory
    the Pak-Cook 235 is actually a good stove albeit parts are not always interchangable with 123's. yes the Sievert is well thought of by users and collectors. the MSR's are pretty cool, the G is a fine stove, the yellow pumps can be a hassle.
    you purchased an instant collection, the Borde is in class by itself.
     
  16. oddball

    oddball Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    62
    I apologize for the long winded post but I felt some information needs clarification.

    The first Model G and G/K stoves were introduced August 1977.

    1976 and 1977 Model 9A, 9-MF, DF and late 1977 Model G and G/K stoves all utilized circlips on catch arms and pan wires. If circlips are not present, they were changed out with a more current retainer ring of the time.

    The retainer ring on the alignment block catch arm with the stove on the left was used on Model 9 and Model MF stoves as well as early Model 9A and 9-MF stoves.
    upload_2017-3-4_13-55-19.png
    The retainer ring used on the long catch arm on the right was introduced sometime in late 1980.

    The long catch arm replaced the short catch arm in 1980 and was used on Model G, GK, X-GK, XGK ll, XGK ll Shaker and XGK Expedition stoves thru the end of 2001.
    upload_2017-3-4_13-53-36.png
    New short catch arms were introduced in 2002 and are in use today on all MSR stoves that utilize pumps.

    The dark yellow pump with the pins is very collectible and is original to both of your Model 9A stoves. The light yellow pump without pins shipped with G, G/Ks from late 1980 to October 1981 and X-GK stoves until the end of 1985.

    Congratulations on your nice collection of stoves.
     
  17. OMC

    OMC United States Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    4,327
    Location:
    ILLINOIS, USA
    Hoppinjohn,
    WELCOME and congrats, that is a nice collection (for ..."not a collector") and it's clear you've learned quite a bit along the way, that's great.
    Your nice post has brought oddball out of hibernation :lol: , that is also great to see.

    oddball, if I may...
    > he inquires about his
    111
    282 connector block if it equates to Feb 82, would you agree? What is month/year for these next connector blocks while you're on a roll?
    041
    781 and
    112
    081. IIRC not all posters interpret this format the same way, I value your take on it, please, thank you.

    > reminder, above you mention to Hoppinjohn "...both of your Model 9A stoves". that confused me, ...easy to do :oops: .

    all, oddball, if we focus on OP, Hoppinjohn requests info about first 2 stoves shown. For sake of my next question, NOT factoring in the pumps, re his OP ...
    What are the first 2 stove models shown in this post?
    Given verbose responses above, it seems odd ...strange to me that hasn't been clearly answered yet, unless I'm missing something.
    thx omc
    tags @oddball @Hoppinjohn
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
  18. oddball

    oddball Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    62
    @OMC @Hoppinjohn

    111 282 is November 12 1982 is a Friday
    041 781 is April 17 1981 is Good Friday
    112 081 is November 20 1981 the Friday a week before Thanksgiving
    If you check those dates with the correct calendar year, you'll see the days never fall on a weekend.

    The first two images are Model 9A stoves because of the steel rod in the fuel tubes as @Doc Mark points out.
    And the third image with the side-by-side shot are the same Model 9A stoves.
     
  19. Hoppinjohn

    Offline
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    3
    Again, wow and thanks for all the help and great learning.

    Thanks for suggesting that, Ken - I unscrewed it and everything looks hunky-dory. I can see a day in my future when I make an adjusting tool and fire it up, for sure!

    I was in the far northwestern part of VA, almost to WVA, visiting a friend and hitting a couple of estate sales was on the agenda. No, sorry, Doc Mark - no idea who the previous owner was.

    And thanks oddball for the additional very detailed history and info on the early MSRs, different characteristics, and also for the correction on how to read the date on the alignment block. I'm getting a hell of an education here! Slowly...getting...sucked...in...

    PS - I emailed MSR/Cascade to see if they had any old "XK" jets, since the XGK only had the "XG" jet with it. Got a reply last night that they did, and will send it to me free of charge. This may be what comes with me next on the trail.
     
  20. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    16,547
    Location:
    North Carolina