Interesting 4M from NZ

Discussion in 'Coleman No:4' started by Barrett, May 14, 2019.

  1. Barrett New Zealand

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    Hi

    The new to me 4M arrived today and I'll post here to further the knowledge/discussion around the two 4k-transistional? stoves found in NZ and posted previously.

    I saw this online and immediately saw the similarities with boogy's and my 4 K-transitional stoves from down here in NZ, the posting of boogy's stove confirmed mine wasn't an orphan, and I think this stove is another transition between the 4k and final full production 4M.
    20190514_163614.jpg
    20190514_161859.jpg
    20190514_162227.jpg

    I can't get the burner assembly out yet and have the screws soaking for now, but quick look over shows these similarities to our 4k-transitional stoves

    1) manifold and burner assembly are the same and mount the same
    20190514_161957.jpg


    2) secondary burner has 9 rings as per my 4k-T, Main only has 8 at inspection, it is missing the top flat ring.
    20190514_163437.jpg

    3) tank is everdur, non magnetic, 3 piece fuel cap and clipped pump assembly

    Differences

    1) stove legs are as expected on early 4M

    2) fuel valve knob is red vs previous black (would like to know what year colour change from black to red? And these knobs aren't the bright red from much later stoves and lanterns)
    20190514_161936.jpg
    20190514_161911.jpg

    3) secondary burner control is a red knob vs previous pressed steel key

    4) windshield restraints are slotted flat bar as expected for 4M rather than internally mounted wiggly wire of 4k and our 4k-T.

    So that's as far as I've got for now till the mounting hardware frees up.
    This one has had a touch up paint job at some stage so I think I'll go full strip, panel straightening and repaint.
    Will need to replace the missing flat burner ring, but at least this one has its grate.

    So to me, another interesting stove, which again could be a Franky, but I feel as I did with the 4k-T it's original and more likely a development stage stove, and another oddity sent down to NZ?

    @OMC @Boogy

    Cheers
    Barrett
     
  2. Boogy New Zealand

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    Nice. I’ll get around to counting the rings on mine tomorrow,just been busy
     
  3. OMC

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    Congrats Barrett,
    Yes, 2 very interesting developments down under.
    Changes are made during production (different versions/variants of same model) <-- this vs transitioning or "transitional" anything . IE you've got an early 4K with cast burner asm and now a 4M with (same?) cast burner asm. Both excellent stoves.

    Both of the NZ 4Ks are early versions, seeing no model# and wind screen brackets.
    IIRC our theory was the cast burner asm. placed your 4K as possibly the earliest version but
    seeing a 4M that also has a made in Canada cast burner casts doubt in the theory that the cast burner made that 4K the earliest 4K.

    So, 2 4Ks and a 4M with cast burner asms. all found in NZ.
    [​IMG]

    During our discussions of these, Canadian members have commented.
    4Ms are very common in Canada. Now that the 4M is in the mix, if (so far) a 4M with cast burner asm. has never been seen in Canada.... that would seem to be a clue to something. I am at a loss to attempt to explain.
    It has been said that Australia & NZ are basically the same economy. I wonder, will 4Ks & Ms w/cast manifolds emerge there too?

    Pure speculation: a distributor placed a large special order.
    In this case Aussie/NZ distributor, being told about a new model, says "I like the cast burner assemblies. I'll take 200 of your new model but only if they come with the cast burners (not that new crap hehehehe)
    but again I am at a loss to attempt to explain it given,
    (only in NZ so far), we see 2 early 4Ks and a 4M with cast burner asms.
    thx omc
     
  4. OMC

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    Barrett, Boogy,
    While this detail is still fresh for us, re: band a blue "...secondary burner has 9 rings as per my 4k-T, Main only has 8 at inspection, it is missing the top flat ring."
    It sounds to me like you have figured that correctly.

    It will be interesting to hear if Boogy counts rings on his 4M (don't have to disassemble to count them), if his is still 9 rings on both?

    Reason: early cast iron burner asms. (both 2 1/8" dia.. both same), both had 9 rings.
    Vapor/flow to 2nd is less than to the main if for no other reason, increased distance increases resistance.. pressure is reduced the farther it is piped from source.
    On later models the 2nd burner is different/smaller than main.
    I have a 419 w/cast burner asm. both same 2 1/8 burners, it has 9 rings on main and 7 rings on 2nd burner.
    I'll guess, restricting 2nd burner in this way delivers same performance or maybe better?
    If Barrett's is missing a ring, he might consider going with 7 rings on 2nd burner.
    thx omc
     
  5. Boogy New Zealand

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    Right then I had a look at the burner rings this lunch and I have 5 flat and 4 wavy one in each.
     
  6. Barrett New Zealand

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    @OMC @Boogy

    Excellent boogy, that shows all 3 burner assembliss obviously left Canada like that, rather than having been toyed with afterwards.

    OMC, thank you once again for your research and knowledge, and for sharing it. Good idea to drop to 7 rings if I need too, I've been on to Coleman NZ about any spares, not hopeful but pleasently helpful, and I will contact someone I know who has been cleaning out a estate collection that may have some bits, it's where I got the early 4?, and their saving another old copper coloured tank for me too.

    Any idea when knobs were swapped from black to red? Probably as close as I'll get for a date on this 4m.

    Cheers
    Barrett
     
  7. Barrett New Zealand

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    PS, 2 1/8 inch 5.3cm is bang on for burners.
     
  8. Boogy New Zealand

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    Just found another 4K in timaru, there sprouting up like weeds over here.
     
  9. Barrett New Zealand

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    @Boogy are you getting it? Be interesting to see.
     
  10. Boogy New Zealand

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    Yeh looks like it. Wife’s shaking her head right now!!!.you will have to give me a few days to get it.
     
  11. Barrett New Zealand

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    Well done.
    Take your wife somewhere and cook a nice meal on a stove, mine understood the practicality after doing that a few times and has slowly come around to the fact that of course I need more than one lol
     
  12. Boogy New Zealand

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    It will have to wait then as it’s too windy here at the moment
     
  13. ArchMc

    ArchMc Subscriber

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    Start admiring old airplanes. She'll come right around on the stoves.

    ....Arch
     
  14. Boogy New Zealand

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    I like anything old an unusual, thankfully my wife isn’t ether of those.
     
  15. Boogy New Zealand

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    Disaster! Didn’t get get the 4K. Couldn’t come to a deal on postage. And couldn’t be bothered driving to timaru.
     
  16. Barrett New Zealand

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    I'll just add here that I decided to clean this one up since it had already had a few touch ups.
    Electrolysis followed by primer and then Rustoluem Hunter Green for the case, VHT flat silver for burners and grate.
    Leaving tank at the moment to show its age, that may change.

    Have another 4m inbound with the steel burner assembly, will be interesting to see what tank is made off.
    I'll get to the bottom of 4M production yet lol
    20190609_185128.jpg