IRISH KELLY KETTLE

Discussion in 'Other Countries' started by kaw550red, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    This is a bit different from the stoves on the site but it is interesting.

    1291370840-PC030006_opt.jpg 1291370855-PC030007_opt.jpg 1291370867-PC030008_opt.jpg

    It appears to be identical to the Sirram Volcanoes that were being sold in the 1960s although I have no idea which design was the original.

    You do not need to carry any fuel for the kettle. The upper part is a tube with a water jacket (kettle) surrounding it. The cork performs two functions. It seals water into the kettle whilst being it is carried. The cork is attached by a chain to the kettle. When the kettle boils the cork is lifted to tip the kettle for pouring. Obviously this is done whilst the kettle is lifted by using the carrying handle at the top.

    You use twigs, paper, dried grass or other combustable material in the fire box and flue. Lighting it heats the water but you have to feed more combustable materials whilst the water is heating.

    This stove is a 2 1/2 pint capacity and the stove is available in a smaller and larger size. The smallest is 1 pint and it weighs 1 1/4 lbs.

    I have used it with paper but suspect that it will be much better using twigs as paper is prone to smoulder rather than burn. Despite this the paper did heat the water. The opening on the firebox is turned into the wind so that the kettle turns into a forced draft boiler. This quickens the boiling time

    The firebox packs in to the bottom of the kettle for storage and all fits into a carrying bag
     
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  2. davidcolter

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    These are popular with the archery and spearchucking group I go camping with. They are very quick to boil once they get going but getting fuel from wherever you are is often harder than you think. The guys end up bringing bags of finely split wood and tinder with them to feed the Kelly, which rather defeats the object. They get extremely dirty inside as well, so they are a problem to pack away again.
     
  3. Gordon F

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    I've had one for years. It's provided gallons of tea and hot water for cooking.

    Ive never been anywhere that didn't provide enough twigs for a brew, but perhaps that is from my choice of camping places.

    The Kelly Kettle has to be one of the best choices to take with you, car camping that is, I wouldn't want to pack one any distance.
     
  4. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    I bought it to use as an incinerator for confidential papers. The kettle side was simply a bonus. It did burn paper twisted up but the paper burnt slowly although it still heated the water quickly.

    I then tried burning shredded paper in it but this did not burn well as the unburnt shreds tended to smother the shreds burning in the firebox.

    Regards Bryan
     
  5. The Bird

    The Bird Subscriber

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    Hello Gents,

    These are commonly known as Thermettes, or Benghazi Boilers in New Zealand. They were used by Kiwi troops at Gallipoli, and all through both World Wars. They are most commonly manufactured in tin or copper over here, and may still be purchased new.
    When I was young, every Council Lorry and Road Crew had at least one, and it was the Lorry Driver's job to brew the tea.
    They were also closely associated with the Railways Dept, and most Apprentice Railways Fitters had to produce at least two as a part of their apprenticeship.
    I have one, made in copper. An inherited item, most likely from my God-father, who was Foreman of a Track Crew in the 1960's. I take it camping, and use it to boil the washing water while dinner is being enjoyed. It will boil a half gallon in less than 5 minutes, when the fire is properly laid, and the wind taken into account. All in all, an efficient tool, if a little bulky. Good to keep in the car, usually with the fire aleady laid inside.
    The Irish version looks very fetching, all shiney and new, not all tarnished and world-weary like my old faithful, many thanks for sharing.

    Best regards,

    Mike.
     
  6. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Quote:

    "I bought it to use as an incinerator for confidential papers".

    Hi Bryan, that is one of the only excuses I have not yet used to justify the purchase of the stove... If there is no Copyright I would like to use it for my next acquisition!
    Nice photos and description by the way.
    Best Regards,
    George.
     
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  7. lanevitt

    lanevitt Subscriber

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    https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/11994

    ;) This 1 pinter has been a favourite of mine for some years now, and has a wonderful carbon build up inside the kettle and a great smokey smell :content: i just couldn't resist a gas conversion for it.
     
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  8. mikenkansas

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  9. geeves

    geeves New Zealand Subscriber

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    When I was young, every Council Lorry and Road Crew had at least one, and it was the Lorry Driver's job to brew the tea.

    What they dont tell you though was that the normal fuel they used was a half cup of petrol (probably leaded) in an open can and drop a match in the top.
     
  10. Allan Jenkins

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    These were common on road gangs & with rail workers here too. Known as "choofers" The trick on road gangs was to soak a wad of cotton waste with diesel fuel & put that in the firebox. I have two made in different sizes. They work well. I have even seen them set up with a small hot plate on top to fry an egg.
     
  11. The Bird

    The Bird Subscriber

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    Hello Geeves,

    Yep, you're most likely right, though I saw a lot of them with a smudge pot under them. The Tar Gangs quite often burned tar-soaked rags. Smokey, but good enough.

    I have tried mine on a 2-Pint Veritas Stove, but too much of the heat went out the top. I punched some holes in a jam jar lid, and used it as a choke, to great success. It also goes well on the Primus 535.

    Cheers,

    Mike.
     
  12. hoodie

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    I have a small Kelly Kettle; my wife picked it up for me on our anniversary this summer. It came with a small pot (useless), little grate for teh burn chamber and some cross pieces to insert in the top to cook on. I use it when I go cutting wood in the summer up north it nice to have some hot tea with a sandwich; I burn the splinters that collect around the cutting block and cones. There is a little handle that goes with the pot but I poached it into another cook set.

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  13. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    Hi Andrew

    After reading your other post I thought that the kettle would probable work well on a 00 silent special.

    1291568128-P1010002_opt.jpg 1291568141-P1010007_opt.jpg

    The idea was that the burner would be up inside the kettle.

    This involved making a set of special legs so that the kettle could sit within them. I used a 00 because I wanted the top of the legs to sit outside the kettle and lock it into place. If I had used a 2 pint stove the top of the legs would have had to be fitted inside the kettle as the tank is a bigger diameter than the kettle. The titanium heat shield was to prevent the stove tank from overheating with reflected heat.

    The system worked quite well although it took nearly 20 minutes to boil the 2.5 pints of water in the kettle. The small pan on top held 1 pint and it boiled in 11 minutes. I got the impression that the pan stand would have been better if the pan had been closer to the top of the kettle. I used the pan water to reactivate a heat pad which has been lying around discharged for a few months

    The air temperature was below freezing outside the garage and the temperature in the garage was low so that may have influenced the boiling times.

    I have been camping since 1952 and have never seen one of these kettles in use or even in a shop. I bought mine off ebay.

    I am very surprised that they date from WW1 and are in use in so many countries even though the different countries have different names for them

    Regards Bryan
     
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  14. The Bird

    The Bird Subscriber

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    Hello Bryan,

    I too have been down the road you are on now, and with the same very poor results.

    I tried, as you have, to use the Thermette with the burner inside the cone. I found that the flame was impeded, and partially smothered.

    When I stood the Thermette on top, as one would an ordinary pot, the performance was markedly improved. The natural chimney effect draws the heat upward through the cone.

    As stated previously, I ended up fashioning a choke from a jam jar lid, and using it to trap heat, while allowing limited air-flow.

    It must be said, that these Thermettes, Kelly Kettles, Benghazi Boilers, call 'em what you will, seem to benefit most from direct flame contact over as much of the inner cone's surface as is possible. Their efficiency comes from the huge surface area of the cone, and the heat transfer it offers. To that end, the best results are gained by simply lighting a fire inside them. As I have said earlier, my own beastie has a 2.5 litre capacity, and boils in around 4 to 5 minutes. One tip: give the cone a good scrub, then soap the inner cone surface, it'll make it easier to clean up next time.

    Best regards,

    Mike.
     
  15. Gordon F

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    The inside of mine is thick with black tarry deposits. Is there any way of safely cleaning this out? I'm afraid to dig at it too much, lest I puncture the thin aluminion.
     
  16. hikin_jim

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    Wouldn't it be better to leave the inside dirty? Dark colors absorb more heat. I would think you'd have a better, faster boiler if you left the inside dirty.

    HJ
     
  17. The Bird

    The Bird Subscriber

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    G'day Jim,

    One would think that black would absorb more radiant heat, and I reckon you'd be right.....IF this was one of those type of gizmos.

    My experimentations lead me to believe that these work better with direct flame contact over a large area, to transfer the heat into the metal cone, and so into the water within the water jacket. It should be noted that the differential between boil times for Kero Stove and fire are highly indicative. The stove will never compete with the fire, if it is laid well, and wind direction taken into account. A well fired Thermette will often throw a roaring flame 12-18 inches above the top of the chimney. With some of the larger ones (made for Railways Track Gangs,) a chimney stack was socketted on to assist the draw of the firebox. That really makes them boil!!! The better the draft, the quicker the boil!!!

    Comparison with other types of heating apparatus would suggest that soot and tar inhibits the heat transfer, and has effect on the efficiency.

    When I was a child, we had an open fireplace with a cast iron heat reflector at the back. One of my daily chores was to clean the fireplace, the reflector, and lay the fire. I was always told by my Grandfather, that the reflector needed to be cleaned regularly, so as to throw the heat more efficiently.

    Similarly, when I was a Boy Scout, all those years ago, I was taught to keep the billies clean on the outside, as they boil better without all the accumulated crud attached. That was where the soap trick came in.....the soot just peels off at wash-up time, just with a brush, no scouring pads needed.

    For these reasons, I keep my thermette well scrubbed on the inside, and well polished on the outside. The copper has held up well for its probable 60yr age.

    Best regards,

    Mike.
     
  18. The Bird

    The Bird Subscriber

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    Hell Gordon,

    Sorry, should have included this in the previous post.

    To clean, try a little petrol, on a soft scouring pad. Once you have it reasonably clean and dry, apply a little vegetable oil to seal. Just before you use it, apply a good coating of concentrated dish-wash liquid. It will bake on in the flames.

    When you go to wash the cone, the soot and tar will mostly remove with a brush.

    Hope this helps.

    Best regards,

    Mike.
     
  19. hikin_jim

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    Really? :-k I've always heard that a black pot will absorb more heat than any other color. I suppose there's a balance to be struck with everything. Perhaps too much build up leads to reduced performance in this case?

    HJ
     
  20. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    Hi All

    A black surface does absorb more heat than a light coloured or reflective surface. However as the black layer builds up the increased thickness partly insulates the metal from the heat so efficiency is lost. All that happens is that the black surface gets hot but all of the heat does not reach the metal pan or in this case the water jacket of the kettle.

    It is a problem with Primus type burners except the build up of the carbon deposits is mainly internal. Those deposits will eventually choke the burner but before that they will cause flaring as part of the heat absorbed by the burner metal is prevented from reaching the fuel inside so the liquid fuel is not vapourised properly. Primus instructions used to say that the stove should be constantly used at a high flame to prevent this build up within the burner. The instructions did not say what you did with the food cremated by using excessive heat!

    When I did my experiment with the 00 stove I got slow boiling times partly because the flame spread did not reach the kettle inner walls. I was effectively heating the water with hot air rather than flame. My kettle is 2.5 pints and I suspect that the results would have been a lot more impressive on 1 pint kettle. I was using the pan stand and pan on top of the kettle to try to slow the escape of the hot air. However using a Primus type stove does not appear to need such a big gap between the top of the kettle and the pan. I suspect that gap is necessary to improve the burning of rubbish in the kettle.

    When it was being heated I did notice that there appeared to be yellow in the stove flame however I could not get a clear view either up or down the inside of the kettle and was relying on the reflection from the heat shield. Yellow flames usually mean incomplete combustion resulting in sooting of the pans. In this case the the flue was perfectly clean without any trace of soot. Yellow flame usually means that the fuel/air mix is wrong resulting in incomplete combustion. I may have got better results by raising the kettle slightly to let more air in.

    Copper was widely used for pans because of high thermal conductivity. Aluminium is quite good but not as efficient as copper. Aluminium seemed to start to be used about the same time as Primus stoves were invented. Previously camping pans were copper. The copper kettles should boil faster than the modern aluminium kettles

    Regards Bryan