Leaker When Pressurizing

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by Hawkyd, May 6, 2021.

  1. Hawkyd United States

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    30 years later and I'm headed back to the wilderness. So I dig out my 70's Svea 123 and go to test it. (using mini pump with required cap) So I'm pumping away and determine that the seals and/or O-rings are failing on the pump. But I get enough pressure to get something to come out the nozzle, but it's shutoff. I verify it's shutoff and go back to pumping with gusto, and again, fluid leaks out the nozzle enough to light, but that's all it had in it. (Probably due to bad cap seal). So I've ordered a mini-pump repair kit (old cap washer crumbed out). But I'm not sure what I'm looking for to ensure proper shutoff. I've seen mention of perhaps a "granite" washer for the adjusting rod? That seems that might be what I'm needing, but any insights would be appreciated.
     
  2. Lennart F Sweden

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    Have you tried to tighten the nut around the spindle? The graphite packing needs a slight tightening when it starts to leak.
     
  3. Hawkyd United States

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    Thank you for your response. I thought I did. But you said "graphite packing" and that's the term I was looking for. While my rubber gaskets were shot, I didn't think the graphite packing would degrade. And I can picture needing to tighten it a little, and I'm pretty sure I did, but it still leaked out the nozzle as pressurizing.
     
  4. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

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    The graphite does not degrade nearly as much as the seals.
    Rubber is not an accurate term. When searching for replacements "Viton" is the goto material for seal and pip replacements.
    Fettlebox is our own source for the replacements.
    At your service! - The Fettlebox
     
  5. Fettler United States

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    Danger Will Robinson! Danger!!

    The Svea is a self-pressurizing design. That pump & cap is (in my opinion) maybe the dumbest damn thing Optimus ever did. More on that later.

    To be fair to Optimus the pump is really only designed to be used for ease in priming the stove. Just enough pressure to dribble fuel from the tank into the priming cup. Then the stove is operated in the usual manner. Maybe you know this already, not trying to beat up on you here. There are a gazillion other ways to prime the Svea as far as that goes. The original instructions suggest warming the tank in your hands until fuel dribbles from the jet, admittedly in cold weather this is not optimal.

    Every single stove I've ever seen over some years that had that pump & cap included ALWAYS had a blown out cap, probably because the user started wailing on that thing like it's a Coleman lantern.

    It's possible there isn't even a problem with your stove, depending on the PSI involved. The graphite packing should ordinarily last for many years. Were it me, I'd throw that pump away, and use the standard cap with a fresh gasket
     
  6. ROBBO55

    ROBBO55 Subscriber

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    Welcome to CCS @David M Browning
    If fuel is leaking around the control spindle, yes tightening the graphite seal should stop it.
    If the fuel is leaking from the jet then I would remove the spindle and check the tapered end for corosion, damage or dirt. I usually clean up the tapered end gently using 800 grade wet'n'dry between the finger tips.
    Clean inside the valve using a cotton bud and solvent.
     
  7. Hawkyd United States

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    IMG_5707.JPG Thanks to ALL for your feedback. I did get new seals and "gently" pressurized with a few pumps. It did not leak out the spout this time when pressurized and shut-off. Fired that puppy up, and watched as a 50 year stove did its' thing. Okay, but when I shut it off, a small residual flame continued. I let it cool as much as possible, blew it out, and opened the tank to depressurize. I'm going to take ROBBOSS's advice and check "the spindle and check the tapered end for corrosion"
     
  8. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

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    The small flame is common after shut off.
     
  9. Fettler United States

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    Keep in mind the 123R (with the cleaning tip assembly under the jet) can have that cleaning tip inadvertently installed incorrectly. A stove that won't shut off completely (or leaks) is definitely a symptom of that condition. This is not necessarily your situation here, but it is something that should be investigated and ruled out. A lot can happen in 30 years, it is easy to check for this and easy to remedy. It looks like that situation from here. The fix involves pulling the cleaning needle and counting the "clicks" that the spindle engages. A pencil eraser works to hold the cleaning needle without drawing blood.

    I'm not sure the spindle can be removed without having to mess with or replace the graphite packing. Check the easy or at least more likely faults first.
     
  10. Majicwrench

    Majicwrench Subscriber

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    The small flame may be common after shutdown, but it is not correct, especially if it last for more than a few seconds.
     
  11. Hawkyd United States

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    I cleaned the nozzle plunger and fired it up again. This time it did have a residual flame after shutting down, but it went out on its' own after less than a minute (maybe 30 seconds).
    THANKS AGAIN to ALL for your feedback and support.
     
  12. Fettler United States

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    Take the cleaning needle out completely, for test purposes. It isn't necessary for operation. Some people feel it improves performance. In any case this will prove out the unit, see if it shuts off without leaking.

    The technique to fully seat the cleaning needle, with the correct number of "clicks" of the spindle isn't difficult, but it might take a couple of iterations. It's explained more fully here:

    Spare Parts Kits

    It will leak if not set correctly, and the flame adjustment range will be severely compromised if this is the problem. It's worth fixing if this is the case.
     
  13. Fettler United States

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    edit to above link, a member explains it better than I can:

    ... the reason perhaps it does not shut off is the spindle does not go all the way into the hole to close it as the needle is seated all the way down. The best way is to first remove the cleaning needle and turn the spindle all the way shut, then the needle is set on top and while turning the spindle counter clockwise (open position) count how many times the needle jumps (clicks). Usually 3 clicks works and should cure the problem. Its a trial and error, some require 4 clicks. This is only done after making sure the teeth on both the spindle and needle are not toothless or damaged. Using the pencil eraser to align the needle to the spindle tooth (a trick I read somewhere in the forum)."

    Spare Parts Kits
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2021
  14. Hawkyd United States

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    I cleaned all inner parts and the stove pressurized, ran, and shut-off correctly. On to cleaning...
    but first, two questions for clarification...
    1: is the horizontal valve the flame adjuster (on/fuel flow/off)?
    2: If 1 is true, is the vertical inner rod with pin, just a cleaning needle?

    Cleaning: I've seen numerous ideas on cleaning such as vinegar, vinegar and flour, ultrasound, tumblers, etc.. I have neither an ultrasonic cleaner nor tumbler.
    I'm starting the cleaning process slowly trying to avoiding new scratches and aggressive abrasives.
    I thought of using either Fitz or Brasso for the final cleaning, as I have both.
    I saw someone say to applying a wax polish or lacquer to preserve shine. Your thoughts?
    Is "lacquer" a spray on item? (I've always been terrible at spray painting and get runs, and I find it hard to believe it doesn't somehow tarnish/burn when stove is in use)

    Thoughts on removing carbon on stem, and/or bottom?

    And Thanks to all for your input in getting it running again. While I tried to store it in a proper manner, it was "stored" for more than 40 years; and it is amazing that a piece of 50 year old equipment can be up and running again with just some cleaning and new gaskets or o-rings. Salute to the engineering of yesteryear.


    IMG_5717 cropped.jpg
     
  15. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Hawkyd

    Answers:

    1. The spindle, with the needle and rack fitted in the stove, controls the fuel flow, shuts off the fuel (hard right), and pricks the jet (hard left).

    2. The needle is the jet cleaner. The needle will impede fuel flow, but is not meant to be operated as a fuel control device. Reducing fuel flow is by turning the spindle towards shut off (right). Peak fuel flow should be somewhere near the middle of the span of the arc of the control.

    If you’re going to use the stove, cleaning the burner and bell is a bit redundant - it will be black again soon enough.

    If you polish the stove, you can use wax or an automotive clear coat to preserve the shine.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  16. Majicwrench

    Majicwrench Subscriber

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    Tis worthy of note....my 123R, you can turn the spindle (horizonal) toward shut-off to lower the flame, and it does decrease the flame, but the flame gets all crappy....
    If you turn spindle left (which raises pricker) flame decreases and looks good. So when I need to decrease flame, I raise the pricker a bit.
     
  17. Fettler United States

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    Brass polish containing ammonia is said by some to be a no-no, as over time it can weaken the fuel tank by causing cracks. The Svea is impressive when all shined up! Once it is cleaned and polished up it takes very little maintenance if you're inclined to keep it that way, I wouldn't worry too much about clear coats.