Greetings, Guys, In another thread, the topic of using Meths stoves in deep cold came up, and I suggested that such stoves can, and have, been used for this type of camping for a very long time, and that they work just fine in that regard. I further suggested we plan a snow camp, at altitude, to test this theory. Several folks jumped in with interest in this!! Hey, this just might actually turn into something fun! For a local Southern California snow camp, my idea is to take the Palm Springs Tram up to the Ranger Station on Mt. San Jacinto, then snowshoe the short two miles to Round Valley, where we can setup our camps. If memory serves, Round Valley is around 9,000+ feet in elevation, and we've camped there in Winter many times over the last 30+ years, always having a fine time of it. I would suggest that anyone who wishes to be in on this particular camp, have and know how to use snowshoes, and also has a good 4-season backpacking type tent, and other gear. Even though it's only two miles from the Ranger Station, if something blows in, weather-wise, as can often happen up there, we will be on our own until the storm(s) pass. Sturdy, well-vented 4-season tents are the ONLY way to go on this mountain, in the Winter!! There will, of course, be plenty of good, clean snow to melt for drinking water, and if we are using only Meths stoves, then it might be best to bring a goodly amount of fuel. This would be a 2-3 day camp, I'm thinking, and our camp would be stationary, though we could make a trip up to the peak, at 10,802 feet, and to other such interesting places, venturing out from our camp, if there is interest. Of course, schedules will have to be checked, and plans made, after the heavy snowfalls that should begin to arrive up there in the near future. Tim could be our "man on the street" tester, in his camp in Colorado!! 8) Tim, I'm thinking about using Meths for every task, from cooking, to melting snow, to see how it functions, performance-wise, in deep Winter conditions. Trangia stoves, Optimus Trapper 81's, 199's, and 111T's (with their proper Meths jets and restrictors), and other such Meths stoves, can be used in this setup. I guess it might be "prudent" to bring along a kero, or Coleman Fueled stove, too, just as a safety precaution. But, in truth, I think the Meths stoves will see us all through such a camp in fine style and very safely, if at a somewhat more leisurely pace!!! So, let's see how the snow situation looks, after year's end, and if we get some deep snow dumps, then we can plan our Winter camp!! Sound good? I know that Sweet Bride will most certainly be up for this scheme of ours, and that we'll have an outstanding adventure up there!! The Tram offers protected parking, and I'll check on current fees for taking the round-trip ride up and down the mountain. We'll have to get a permit for camping at Round Valley, but can do that at the Ranger Station, as we head right past it on our way to the camping spot. If anyone has ideas, comments, or suggestions, please post a note here, and we'll all kick the football around to make our final plans, when the time comes to do so! I'm excited, Friends!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
I'm in. It'll be very interesting to try a meths only snow camp. I think it'll a fascinating challenge. (However, that XGK I mentioned will be in the bottom of my pack just in case). HJ
Hey, HJ, That's great! So far, only you and Flivver have tossed your hats into this hair-brained scheme!! 8) I may be loaning Flivver a good 4-season tent (thinking about a TNF Westwind for him), and he may have to rent some snow shoes if Sweet Bride goes along. Otherwise, he can use hers, if she cannot join us. But, I'm sure she will want to do this, if her teaching schedule allows! We'll probably bring our other Westwind tent, too, or maybe a Moss, or larger TNF, the VE-25. As for stoves, I'm going to have to think about whether I want to bring a "back-up stove", or not. Bringing an old GK, or X-GK would be great, as I KNOW they will work perfectly. But, part of the reason for this is to put an end to the myth that Meths stoves won't cut the Winter mustard. So, a large part of me wants to play this by the cards, and only bring Meths stoves. We'll see, as time passes..... So, as we now stand, it's Flivver, you, me, and hopefully, Sweet Bride! Intrepid Adventurers, all, and a good team! 8) If anyone else is interested, please pipe up. But, remember that this is NOT campground camping, and things "can" go from OK, to very nasty, indeed, during such Winter camps, at elevation!!! This is a serious consideration, so please give this some thought before tossing in on this trip. Not trying to scare anyone, just making sure everyone knows it may not turn out to be a "simple" walk in the park. Just like any Winter camp at elevation, things can, and do, go South on your in a split second. So, such consideration is definitely warranted. Glad to have Flivver and HJ in on this, and we'll make plans as things fall into place, schedule-wise, and weather-wise. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Hey, my XGK will be carried as an "emergency use only" item. Sort of like a fire extinguisher. Merely having an XGK isn't a violation of the intent of the trip; it's just "insurance" if you will. I'll probably bring a Trangia 27 and a Caldera Cone (a very interesting system if you haven't seen one). I've also just bought a White Box stove (yet to arrive), so I could bring that. I've got a Skurka cat can stove too. It's so light I may as well throw that in the mix and see how it does. I've also got a Mini Bull Designs Atomic stove. It's not my favorite, but it's light and compact, so I could throw it in. That's five alcohol stoves; that ought to about do it. Isn't that ever how it is? A stovie's struggle is not which stove to bring but which stoves not to bring. HJ P.S. Now, Doc, you just know you're going to want to bring a Borde Bomb as your backup, don't you think?
Evening, CWO, Yes, and once we actually get a plan going, it will be setup in that location. This is just a feeler, so to speak, so I thought it best to get the pot bubbling here, rather than there. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
I used a trangia set,not sure if it was a 25 or 27 for winter trips a few years back & thought it worked pretty well if a little slower than my 111t.
Hi, HJ, You are oh, so, right, when it comes to choosing stoves!! THERE is the rub, Sir, for a real Stovie!! I'll bring a Trapper 81, a Trangia, and a few pop can stoves, plus a Click-Stove. I may also toss in an Optimus 199, as that stove can burn Meths, and kero, with some easy changes, Then, like you, I'll very probably bring another kerosene stove, like a GK, or early X-GK, just to be safe, and because I love those stoves!! That should work just fine, and I'll use the Meths stoves for all things, unless absolutely necessary to do otherwise. Now, for the little Borde, I'm afraid mine will miss this adventure. That would mean bringing another fuel, Coleman fuel, and I'm going to stick with Meths and kerosene on this trip. I promise to bring the Borde(s) to some future event, like our next CASG, or an OSG, or AZSG!! Actually, I've brought Borde stoves to all previous CASG events, but just didn't have time to play with them!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc P.S. If Sweet Bride can join us, the Trangia will be a 25, and if she cannot, I may still bring it, just for the extra capacity it offers, or might make do with a 27. Either way, I'm thinking the Trangias will do just fine! 8)
Evening, Rosebute, You are the voice of experience when it comes to deep Winter camping, my Friend!! Many thanks for your thoughts on all this! I agree with you that the Trangias will perform admirably, if a tad slower than our more powerful stoves. But, it will be fun to make it happen up on Mt. San Jacinto, with some of our CCS Mates!! Wish you could join us, too! Thanks, again, for tossing out your comments on the Trangias, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Doc, This is a great idea! Be sure to take lots of photos. I wish I could go but I might be able to comb something together like this on a smaller scale near Mt Rainier or Smoqalmie Pass. One request though--- If you could gather some opinions on some of the various stove igniting methods that are used, everyone has access to matches and disposable lighters but someone is bound to show up with a refillable butane or these so called "storm-proof" lighters. It may come down to the low tech method is best but some lighters will perform poorly in the cold and at high altitudes. signed, Harold P.S. You also might find the Coleman rubber or plastic pump cup seals may shrink in the cold and have no compression if it is an older stove.
I do have a canteen cup stove. I'm a wee bit short of that nasty trioxane. I might have to use hexamine instead. Not on my list of stoves to bring just yet, but I'll see. My experience with lighters with piezo electric ignitions above about 8000' (2400m) in elevation is not good, particularly in cold weather. My experience is that a plain old flint and steel ignition Bic lighter is better. I might bring a fire steel. The real challenge is for someone to light their stove with a Fresnel lens. HJ
Hi, HK=J, I'm with you on the trioxane tabs. Not worth the pack space, IMHO. I'm not even sure how well they would work in priming a kero stove, either, much preferring Meths paste, myself, for such chores, if liquid Meths wasn't available. Like you, I've found the hi-tech lighters don't work too well up high, or in very cold situations. I might being a nice Primus one that a good friend here at CCS once sent me, just to see. But, even at our CASG events, when it's cold, that lighter has to be kept next to your body to keep it warm, or it doesn't function, at all. Matches, flint and steel, or a fire steel, as you so wisely suggested, are all better options, IMHO. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Hi Doc, thanks. I would love to go camping down there with you guys, but it would be a learning experience for me too. I do lots of winter travelling, but I always end up at a cabin or wall tent with a roaring wood stove. I also have a snowmachine to carry everything, so this is pretty easy compared to the backpacking so many of you do.
Hey, Harold, "IMHO" is computer-speak short hand for "in my humble opinion". Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Well, here we are in January. Happy New Year! San Jacinto Peak is all wreathed in white. Any thought of setting a date for our little jaunt? HJ
Everybody's envious. Actually, as a cross country skier, I sincerely wish it would stay colder. The freeze-thaw that happens here in Southern California typically ruins the snow for skiing in just a couple of days. You have to hit the snow, usually, the day or so after the storm, or the snow is pretty worthless to ski on, unless you like rock hard icy stuff. HJ
