My Optimus 111 leaks, and annoys me...

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by Tron, Aug 6, 2018.

  1. Tron

    Tron Subscriber

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    I have a very old Optimus 111 kerosene roarer (with four "legs" and no hole for pre-heating liquid). I do not love these stoves like many of you do, for several reasons, but it is a classic and if I'm going to keep it it has to work. The problem with it is that it leaks kerosene out of the nipple/jet even just sitting on the shelf. I always put it out after use by closing the valve, turning the wheel all the way to the right, and then I release the pressure in the tank before storing it, or packing it with me, but still it leaks some kerosene after a few hours.

    I guess the problem is either the spindle does not seal completely when closed or I did not get the timing right when I replaced the cleaning needle. I have cleaned the tip of the spindle with 000 steel wool, and it looked fine to me. Perhaps I need to clean the seat in the burner as well? How? If the spindle looks ok, should it also seal well enough? I hate to replace parts that are fine...

    About the timing of the cleaning needle, I went for four clicks, is that necessary or should I try with just three clicks instead? (or five clicks? I can not wrap my head around it, but my thought is that more clicks make the cleaning needle "bottom out" and could prevent the spindle from closing all the way.) Could that really be the problem? The stove goes out completely when I turn the wheel all the way to the right.

    Any thoughts or tips/tricks are welcome.

    Tron, aka elchund
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  2. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Tron

    Test it with the needle out and see whether it still leaks.

    To clean the seat where the spindle mates, put some fine valve grinding paste on the end of the spindle and open and close it many times (don’t force).

    Remember to clean the grinding paste out of the burner.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  3. Tron

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    Thanks for the reply, I will try some J-B bore compound, it is a very fine lapping lapping compound I use to clean rifle barrels. I was contemplating putting it on a pointed bamboo stick and rub the seat with it, but perhaps it better to use the spindle, to mate the two surfaces together, and to get the angle right?

    I will try without the cleaning needle first.

    Tron
     
  4. tofta

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    Hi @Tron
    There are usually three reasons why a regulating burner would leak like this.

    The spindle or seat (or both) is deformed and just do not seal. I am not sure about steel wool on brass, rubbing compound works.

    Second the needle is not set right. I have been playing with 111s and other regulating stoves for three four decades, and I still sometimes get it wrong the first times. I think the combination of a new needle/rack and an old spindle sometimes get the best of me.

    Third, some debris is blocking the spindle, worst case this can cause an indent in the brass (one reason to not be too hard when closing), and we are back to the rubbing compound. Debris can also block the rack and make it bottom out too soon. Compressed air is handy for cleaning debris out of burners. In general, cleaning is important when fettling stoves.

    The fact that the flame extinguishes when turning right is not a guarantee for fuel not leaking out as one might think at first, both kerosene and white gas tend to seep out regardless if not closed. I think this is because what burns is fuel vapour and not liquid fuel.

    All the best, e
     
  5. Tron

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    The burner has been cleaned, soaked in solvent (Lynol) and then in a mix of water, dishwasher liquid and citric acid (primusvann :-)). I have also blown through it with compressed air. It burns very well, very strong blue flame and it also regulates down to a nice simmer. The spindle is the original one, the only parts I have had to replace are the NRV and the spindle packing.

    I will check the the needle tonight.

    Tron
     
  6. Tony Press

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  7. Simes

    Simes R.I.P.

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    If you can live with the knowledge that the spindle mating surface isn't perfect and it will weep, then the easiest solution will be to ensure the filler cap is fully loose.

    You are clearly getting some pressure in the the tank to force paraffin past the spindle surfaces, which can happen if the cap isn't completely free.

    It happens on a few of my No 1s and 5s with air release screws. If they're not really loose then I'll get pressure build up sufficiently to force fuel out.
     
  8. Tron

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    Thanks for all the replies, I have removed the cleaning needle, it broke of in the process so I have also ordered a new cleaning needle (any luck in soldering/brazing a needle back on the rack??). it seems to have stopped weeping without the needle in, so i may have a timing problem only. A weeping box stove is unacceptable to me, as much as a weeping "discuss" stove. I will get to the bottom of this.... :-)

    Tron
     
  9. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

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    I say it is possible to brazed the repair.
     
  10. Tron

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    I got the new parts, jet and needle, and installed them last night. Went with 4 clicks for the needle. It is a little high, but the valve still opens far enough, the stove still burns a litre of water in under 4 minutes.
    20180828_190055.jpg
    After burning it twice and shutting it down with full pressure in the tank it does not leak so far, the burner is still dry. But I do feel I have to turn it quite hard to shut it down completly, and wonder if it will damage the needle and seat over time.
    20180828_201344.jpg

    Elchund
     
  11. Afterburner

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    Needle should not wear too much from closing the valve. Orifice and spindle will wear a bit but they should last quite long. I try to reduce 111 valve system wear by just shutting off the stove with valve. Then I open the tank lid to release pressure from the tank. Then valve not needs to be very tightly closed. When burner cools down I open the valve and close it again.

    I have noticed if valve is fully closed when burner is hot and not re-opened during cooling spindle is very tight when I open valve next time when I use the stove.
     
  12. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Closing the valve hard will eventually damage the tip of the spindle.
     
  13. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    @Tron

    I would try re-setting the needle rack at 5 clicks.

    I would also:

    1. Find some fine grinding paste and put it on the pointy end of your spindle.

    2. Without the needle rack in place, open and close the spindle against its seat in the burner many time (firm but not hard; 50 times).

    3. Clean the burner to make sure you don’t have residual paint.

    4. Then test the burner without the needle rack in place.

    5. If it’s good, re-set the needle rack.

    I have one Optimus 111 that I use without the cleaning needle. I use an external pricker.

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  14. Garth

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    I have noticed all mine do take a firm tweak to shut off completely the 22 and 111/b have new spindles may just be the design of them my 111/7 seems to be the easiest havent invesigated there as it works very well as it arrived not dismantling till i have to
    I suspect the others may have been over tightened in the past which would cause the problem none leak so i tolerate the effort needed to shut them down