Neatsfoot oil drawback

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by presscall, Jan 28, 2021.

  1. Gunner

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    @Capt.Cook - now that's interesting; about the congealing of the oil in its bottle, and yet the pump is still working fine. I've just bought a Shinabro, which I think has been stored out of use for decades, so I'll be ordering a set of seals and a pump leather from the Fettlebox. I still have a bottle of pure neatsfoot from when I had my horse - so I'll give the neatsfoot a try on the new leather, applying it in the way you do it, and see what happens.

    With best regards,
    Gunner
     
  2. Majicwrench

    Majicwrench Subscriber

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    Interesting chat. I have a bottle of "Glove Conditioner" which the label says is neatsfoot oil, it is quite thin even down in the basement, which is always quite cool. Been using it for years with good luck, I live in a cold world and use stoves a lot below 40F with no problems. Now wondering if it may have something else in it too. I might sit it outside and see if it thickens much.
     
  3. Deleted member 16399 Guest

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    To Mr.Gunner

    Thank you for your reply.
    Yes , I would never apply it with a little brush over the leather itself.
    I would soak it and saturate the oil into the core of the leather itself .
    Sometime I forget taken out from a tin can Let it soak over night even.
    You can also find a little mason jar and pour out a neats oil into it then put a several leather caps for storage . Keep it in a dark place . When it is cold day it might solidify then take off the cap of mason jar and put it near the house heater or a fly pan with water then heat it up .
    You can microwave it in short period if you wants it . ( Make sure take off lid cap of the jar during heating period ) that would melt the oil in no time and leathers are already ready to use since it's been soaked for long time. Pick it up with lightly on leather with forceps shake it off then wipe off excess oil with paper towels then install it on pump shaft .
    I would just use a little bottle of Pure neats oil which I buys from local leathercraft shop . That would last for a long long time. And it's not that expensive at all.

    I don't know anything about Korean made lantern pump called Chinabro or Sinabro tho .. LMAO

    I had never used neats oil compound or creams or any other kinds on Coleman leather fuel pump cap lubrications .
     
  4. Gunner

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    @Capt.Cook - thank you for the extra detailed reply.
    The Shinabro I've just bought is a clone of the Optimus 00, and from what I've gathered on this forum was a very well made stove. I bought it on Ebay, and the seller told me that Shinabros were very popular with English Scout troops about 50 years ago.
    With best regards,
    Gunner
     
  5. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

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    It has been so many years I cannot recall. I found the information and have used mineral oil since.
     
  6. Deleted member 16399 Guest

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    @Gunner

    Awww... If it's came out 50 years ago, then It's a knock off version of Optimus 00 .

    At that time , no scouts can afford genuine Optimus individually on their expeditions so They've chose that version to save some money for the parents I guess

    As long as it works good and you like it then I have nothing to say.
    Nothing against you personally at all but a I'm just not a fan of any knock-off products since they aren't paying any dimes for research and development budgets and hard works but copy .
    I don't mind buying similar product than original when it has some kind of drastic improvements were done to it's products and can consider it as an original.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2021
  7. Ed Winskill

    Ed Winskill United States Subscriber

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    I've never owned any Shinabro or other Korean stoves but they have appeared down the years here to have a very good reputation of quality. I wouldn't call them 'knock-offs', unless of course one calls all brass kero three-leggers 'knock offs'. This would include British and German stoves, among others.

    Besides, the Korean stoves have many innovative features that distinguished them.

    As for 50 years ago no individual being able to afford an Optimus 00, that is a very doubtful assertion indeed. They made them to sell to individuals.
     
  8. Deleted member 16399 Guest

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    I just don't buy almost any knockoffs from The world most nortorious infamous on famous designer bag company Luis Viton faux bags manufacturing countries goods known to the Mankind.
    It's applys both in China and S.Korea.

    I don't know about you and nothing against you but It's just my taste and I would not support Communistic oppressions and nearly slavery manufacturing styles either.
    If I buy anything from them then the money goes to it's countrs military power to jeopardize ourselves as we speak of now and future and it's companies but not fir the poor people who are working under such a harsh conditions . It's hard to watch as same human and thats separations between wealth and majority of people are also promoting real human consumption over dog and cats meat...
    As they talk backs to western civilization... A filtered censorship not picking talk backs ... as they calls it is a " delicacy ... " .
    Yeah right.

    Gosh , I'm just can't deal with this kind of miserable CHAIN reactions . A just a small amount of money that I thought I am saving for my own money actually creating such a disasters with large quantities of orders from world wide. Killing my own countrys manufacturing power and jobs.... Looking at all the homeless people who are capable to do simple tasks but no jobs available ...

    By the way, what are we dealing right now ? Covid virus world wide....and it is crystal clear that was clearly human engineered biological terrorist weapon and it's still a light destruction strength and death toll are now higher than WW2 and recent middle east wars combined ...
     
  9. Wim

    Wim Subscriber

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    Many years ago I discussed the use of Neats foot oil on revolver & pistol holsters and similar equipment with someone experienced in horse saddles and other equipment for horse riding. He told me the pure oil was fine but "creams" , "compounds" etc. were a leatherworker's nightmare. It had something to do with the natural fibers used for sewing leather that started rotting away. Something in the mixture attacked the fibers. I don't know what these additives do to modern synthetic fibers. A horse riding friend only uses saddle soap (no oils of any kind), and a friend collecting military stuff only uses wool fat on his leather goods. I think one has to use what one likes best, I prefer to soak pump leather in fine mineral oil (like the little bottles for oiling sewing machines) or a light engine oil. Works fine for me!
     
  10. igh371

    igh371 SotM Winner Subscriber

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    @Gunner From your description your Shinabro must be a 340 model, there are several of these in the Reference Gallery. The model most favoured by Scout and other youth groups was different, it was the 400, which was more comparable to the Optimus 111. Shinabro were known for both the quality of their products and design innovation. Some of their innovations can catch out the unwary owner, like mixtures of both right and left handed threads in some burner assemblies which make them incompatible with other makers equivalents!
    (@Cpt.Cook your rant misses the point, Shinabro were high quality manufacturers from South Korea, nothing to do with either China or North Korea.)
     
  11. Deleted member 16399 Guest

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    :lol: China , N.Korea , S.Korea are Axis of Evils since the Dawn of Asia . It is known to all mankind and I would avoid anything came from there. I just won't Support them . It's just not my taste and I'm not pushing anything or ranting to anyone except someone's wild assumptions and delusional sarcastic bending story styles .
    but what it does lead you is a another different story ... I would like to see any country can be a world super power with in just 75 years . And I would support them to jeopardize my own country and our work by supporting them ? Naw, not me . And I dislike the fact every trojan home electronics products that has WiFi , internet connections which produced from S.Korea is with surveillance programs capabilities. =; you might like it because it might be the disguised as high quality product but not me or Snowden or Jullian Assange for that matter.
     
  12. redspeedster

    redspeedster Romania Subscriber

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    Multigrade neatsfoot oil required.
     
  13. Deleted member 16399 Guest

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    Quotes from Wikipedia

    Fat from warm-blooded animals normally has a high melting point, becoming hard when cool, but neatsfoot oil remains liquid at room temperature. This is because the relatively slender legs and feet of animals such as cattle are adapted to tolerate and maintain much lower temperatures than that of the body core, using countercurrent heat exchange in the legs between warm arterial and cooler venous blood. Other body fat would become stiff at these temperatures. This characteristic of neatsfoot oil allows it to soak easily into leather.

    Modern neatsfoot oil is still made from cattle-based products, and is sometimes[vague] criticized for a tendency to oxidize and therefore contribute to the deterioration of leather.[2][dubiousdiscuss] This formulation does darken leather, which means that use on light-colored leather is likely to change its color. If mineral oil or other petroleum-based material is added, the product may be called "neatsfoot oil compound".[3] Some brands have also been shown to be adulterated with rapeseed oil, soya oil, and other oils.[4] The addition of mineral oils may lead to more rapid decay of non-synthetic stitching or speed breakdown of the leather itself.[3][5][6]

    " Uses
    Neatsfoot oil is used on a number of leather products, although it has been replaced by synthetic products for certain applications. Items such as baseball gloves, saddles, horse harnesses and other horse tack can be softened and conditioned with neatsfoot oil.

    If used on important historical objects, neatsfoot oil (like other leather dressings) can oxidize with time and contribute to embrittling.[7] It also may leave an oily residue that can attract dust. On newer leather, it may cause darkening (even after a single application), thus may not be a desirable product to use when the maintenance of a lighter shade is desired. Neatsfoot oil has greater utility for routine use on working equipment.

    Neatsfoot oil is often used to oil sign-writers' brushes that have been used in oil-based paint, as this oil is non drying and can be easily washed out with solvent at any time. Oiling the brushes reduces the buildup of pigment in the ferrule, the metal part that many brushes have to hold the hairs in place.

    Neatsfoot oil of the highest grade is used as a lubricant.[1] It is used in metalworking industries as a cutting fluid for aluminium. For machining, tapping and drilling aluminium, it is superior to kerosene and various water-based cutting fluids.[citation needed] The fat left over from the second pressing process, a solid stearin, is used for making soap.[1
     
  14. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    SAE 5w-30, indeed Gary.
     
  15. Deleted member 16399 Guest

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    But neatfoot oil is for leather conditioning. I still have no clue when it is used for pump cap to seal the air to pump. What Coleman is saying for leather caps care and what type of oil it should be used with ?
     
  16. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

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  17. Deleted member 16399 Guest

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    @snwcmpr

    Thank you .
    it's kinda chilly now a days
     
  18. cottage hill bill

    cottage hill bill Subscriber

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    @presscall John, we may be being separated by a common language, but here in the states 3-in-1 is not the same as mineral oil. 3-in-1 contains petroleum distillates and carries a toxicity warning. Mineral Oil, while also petroleum based is sold as a non-toxic laxative product. To my non-chemist mind 3-in-1 is closer to a very thin motor oil. That aside it works well for pump leathers. I use straight 30w motor oil.

    Leather care will generate as many opinions as there are lower alimentary canal orifices. Each group has a different perceived wisdom of what works best for their application, horse people, militaria collectors, sportsmen etc. If you add museum curators you get the mother of all Saturday night pub fights.

    The differences lie in the use of the leather. Horse people are using working leather. It is expected to have a finite life time and eventually be worn out and replaced even if the object is to make it last as long as possible. Straps that are buckled and unbuckled need to be flexible as does most of the other tack. Stitching that breaks can be re-stitched. Most horse folks have access to a saddler who can fix broken tack or they can do it themselves. (or have enough $ to just buy new). For them neatsfoot oil does a good job.

    Militaria collectors are untrained museum curators who are trying to preserve a collection for their lifetime or until they can sell or trade an item. Neatsfoot oil tends to rot the linen stitching used in leather products such as holsters, map cases and other stuff soldiers hang about themselves. There are all sorts of products and each person swears by their particular favorite. In reality most of them contain petroleum products which are bad for leather in the long run. Those products break down the fibers of the leather leading to eventual disintegration.

    Museum curators are trying to preserve leather items forever. Their approach (this is always a raging debate in museum circles) is to do the minimum. I understand the current favorite is Renaissance Wax which was developed by the British Museum. I use it for a lots of things.

    The short answer is once the animal dies and its hide is turned into leather the hide starts to deteriorate. There is nothing that will make it last forever. The decay can be accelerated or retarded by various factors like humidity, sunlight, substances applied and so on. However, the short answer is, as a friend of mine says, "Once you're born, you're done for.".

    For us a pump leather is a replaceable, disposable item so it really doesn't matter a hell of a lot what we lube it with as long as it works for your application. If you live on the equator, wheel bearing grease might be just the ticket. At one of the poles something a bit thinner with a very low freezing point would be suggested. The fact that motor oil will deteriorate the leather over time may not be an issue. We've all taken rotted leathers out of a pump we're fettling and what do we do? Replace it.

    My suggestion is use what works for you and don't get too wrapped around the axle if the other guy uses something else. After all it's his stove he's screwing up if he's too stupid to listen to your sage advice.

    Cheers my friends and keep pumpin'

    Reese
     
  19. redspeedster

    redspeedster Romania Subscriber

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    I've used this expression before on this forum. "Oil on a pump leather is like pizza and sex, any better than none".
     
  20. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    @cottage hill bill Well said Reece. An innocuous enough post I imagined but I got a blast of ‘Axis of Evil’ in the thread somewhere! Phew!

    Not my intention to take a stance denouncing neatsfoot oil, but an observation on a phenomenon that caused pump skips where, same pump minutes later, a thin mineral oil resolved matters.

    John
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021