Nitrile washer material in the UK

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by kaw550red, Jan 1, 2005.

  1. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    trademark_uk has started to sell strips of nitrile on ebay in the UK. They are 1.00 metre x 160 mm x 1.5 mm thick. These are not huge but there is sufficient material in one strip to make over three hundred tank lid washers at a fraction of the cost of professionally made ones. Nitrile resists both petrol and paraffin. At present I have not received the item as I only bought it yesterday but the material was posted yesterday and the emails were very friendly so it looks very promising. Punch sets are available on www.axminster.co.uk. Whilst they are expensive you soon recover the cost if you have a lot of stoves that need new washers
     
  2. lobey_d

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    Thanks, Bryan.
    Mine is in the post.

    All the best
    Jim
     
  3. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    trademark_uk is no longer a registered user on ebay. They have probably fallen foul of some daft ebay rule. There is another seller called luxsa who is selling 2 mm nitrile sheet. I have bought some but not tried it yet but it looks okay

    Regards Bryan Miller
     
  4. Spiritburner

    Spiritburner Admin SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Luxsa doesn't look to be selling Nitrile now. In recent times the quality of nitrile seems to be not what is was. I got mine from Trademark_uk back then & the washers I made with it have blown. Not a reflection on the seller - just the hit & miss quality of nitrile. For me VITON is the way to go.
     
  5. Spiritburner

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    In the UK I don't recommend nitrile - had too many turn to mush within months. Viton's the way to go. DIY or get washers from Fettlebox
     
  6. Afterburner

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    I have bought nitrile few times and sellers quite often don't know which quality/version of nitrile rubber they are selling... Some of them change to a mush especially when in contact with gasoline very fast. Some of them can stand also gasoline without any problems. Last set (2mm and 3mm) of biofuel resistant nitrile that I bought has worked well for gasoline and kerosene.

    Since you cannot be very sure about nitrile quality fluorobubber (FPM or FKM) (DuPond tradename 'Viton') is more safe solution...
     
  7. Spiritburner

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    My supplier (who also sells nitrile) is adamant nitrile is rubbish for our needs these days. That may be UK specific though. The only nitrile that isn't is very expensive & not available in the thicknesses we require. Didn't mean to resurrect this thread but have been fixing some reported broken links from the move to the new platform & this post was one of them.
     
  8. Afterburner

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    I don't know maybe here on the edge of the world we are behind of the development of the current world as always...:lol: I haven't had a change to get fluororubber here yet to see how it performs. I have had a plan to make similar test as you (or someone else?) made for nitrile to see how those ones that I have work in "gasoline bath". That my biofuel resistant nitrile is quite hard and I am not sure how it works in low temperatures so that is also one reason why I want to try fluororubber(Viton). Anyway as I looked Fettlebox seal/rebuild kits they are price-wise real bargains especially when they are from material(Viton) that is known to be good. Some ebay seal kits are having higher price and they are made of unknown material.
     
  9. HercL4D2

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    Buna-N rubber or Nitrile can be used for some fuel resistance with a good temp range. This rubber was developed during 2 World Wars. We Humans have moved past Nitrile since then.

    Fluoroelastomer is a better alternative. It is called Viton and was invented by Dupont. It is used in automotive and aerospace fuel systems where long term reliability is required. Any color other than black ( more carbon ) can turn mushy because of the colored Clay filler used instead of heavy carbon.

    https://www.chemours.com/Viton/en_US/applications/index.html

    http://www.rubbersheetroll.com/viton-rubber-quality-grade-80.htm

    Personally I want Viton in my stoves and in my Airplanes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2016
  10. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr Subscriber

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    What is your source of information?
    I have gotten blue VITON pips from someone I know knows what they are doing.

    Ken in NC
     
  11. Spiritburner

    Spiritburner Admin SotM Winner Subscriber

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    One source re colour http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=118681

    How marked the difference is I don't know in terms of how quick any degradation takes place. We could be talking years. With black being the colour of seals they're replacing, Fettlebox has had no reason to do long term tests on any alternative colours.
     
  12. HercL4D2

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    MY source of Information? How about 40 plus years and numerous tech schools working on Fighter aircraft and Cargo planes. I worked it all Hydraulics, fuel, oxygen and nitrogen systems. I know what I am doing also.

    Viton uses colored Clay as a filler or it uses denser carbon which results in a black color. I am sure the fettle box has been supplying perfectly grand seals.

    http://www.gasketing.net/rubber.htm

    Fluorocarbon (Viton, FKM or Fluorel) Fluorocarbon (FKM) is a high tech. elastomer designed for extreme heat, oil and chemical resistance. Viton resists aliphalactic aromatic and halogenated hydrocarbons, concentrated acids, alkalis, animal and vegetable oils.- 75 durometer is preferred. Avoid colored (brown or green) grades; the clay fillers used to replace carbon black are subject to chemical attack. Temperature range: -20 F to +400 F

    http://www.pspglobal.com/viton-properties.html

    http://www.pspglobal.com/viton-lasts-longer.html

    I am just suggesting you decide.
     
  13. Spiritburner

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    @HercL4D2 Just to clarify Ken wasn't referring to Fettlebox as the source of blue Viton.

    Fettlebox only supply black.

    As Viton was developed for the USAF & with your experience I'm sure you know your stuff!

    Is coloured viton still better than nitrile though with regard to how long before it turns to mush?
     
  14. Spiritburner

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    I do find that a little frustrating especially when Fettlebox kits & options are 'copied' using inferior material.

    If their washers were viton they'd say so!
     
  15. HercL4D2

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    Let us not get stuck on the word Viton as a mark of superior quality gasket material. Viton is only the trade Mark name of a fluoroelastomer category that was developed by Dupont.

    FKM is the ASTM designation for the fluoroelastomer category. It is not a mark of quality. Not all FKMs are equivalent, and some may fall short on desired performance.

    Viton has been abused by manufactures all over the world. Unless you are getting Dupont made fluoroelastomer called Viton any thing may happen. Viton was not invented until 1958 by Dupont, However the fluoroelastomer category of rubber was driven by the AXIS powers control of rubber production During WW2.

    The terms FPM, FKM and Viton® very often cause confusion and lead to incorrect interpretations.
    All of these designations actually stand for one single base material:fluoro rubber.


    FPM was developed in Austria which is a gasket material also. Trade name is ZruElast FPM.

    It may be that the MUSHY effect came from these guys. http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/different-color-viton-o-ring.html

    Personally I have my own source of Mil-Spec Dupont Viton rubber I have made all my gasket material from.

    I can just about guarantee that the Coleman infantry stoves inside the U.S. war supplies used Nitrile Gaskets not fluoroelastomer gaskets. So back in the day Nitrile is what was used and should still work today. WE humans have move on since then. I personally think the best gasket material to use is pure copper backed up with A dash of PTFE Jet Lube V2 on the threads.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016
  16. HercL4D2

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  17. magikbus

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    OK so now I'm really confused. The chart from oringsusa above shows that for kerosene and naptha (which should cover Coleman fuel and kerosene (paraffin) both Nitrile and flouroelastomer (Viton's name by dupont) should be good?????
    Stan
     
  18. geeves

    geeves New Zealand Subscriber

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    problem is there is nitrile and nitrile. Some is plenty good enough but some is not and you cant tell which is which. Viton is always good and has a better temperature range although a stove running at temperatures high enough to effect the rubber seals probably has bigger problems
     
  19. HercL4D2

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    Ill try to make this simple but with some history. N-BR =NBR means rubber from trees with added carbon equals bunna rubber which equals NITRILE Nitrile Buna Rubber. It is black. the Japenese started a war long before we got sucked into it they managed to capture and control most of the rubber producing plantations in their area of invasion. Effectively cutting off our supply of Rubber. What stocks the U.S.A. had were converted to war material.

    The U.S.A. Chemists started to invent what is called FKM a Flouroelastomer from what? Oil and polymers and their little chem sets? ( I fell asleep in that part of the class ) with success. Similar but slightly better than Nitrile in some fluids. The only difference with the Flouroelastomer and Viton is this. Viton is the trade mark name of Dupont given to their version of a Flouroelastomer. I say "of a Flouroelastomer" because they like Coca Cola will not give up a trade secret. It does not mean You should only buy the Viton Brand.

    IF Viton - then Viton A is what you are looking for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoroelastomer#Composition

    Heat plus time equals degradation of everything.

    Nitrile covers them all
     
  20. gieorgijewski

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