Optimus 77a

Discussion in 'Optimus No:77' started by Afterburner, Nov 7, 2014.

  1. Afterburner

    Offline
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,096
    I just found un-fired Optimus 77a. :D/ It was complete with user manual. There was card board box also, but it was not complete (lid was missing and it was taped to keep it together).

    User manual tells that it burns 40 min with one burner fill. Box tells that both kettles are 1,33 liter and weight is 0,7 kg. (I weight it and result was 740 gr).

    Interesting to note that burner's inner wall has two notches that fuel can flow to space between inner and outer wall through them. That's a different construction compared to Trangia's burner.

    1415379476-Optimus77set.jpg

    1415379497-Burner1.jpg

    1415379511-Burner2.jpg

    1415379528-FlameRing1.JPG 1415379551-FlameRing2.JPG 1415379569-FlameRing3.jpg 1415379590-Handle1.jpg 1415379613-Handle2.JPG 1415379631-Handle3.JPG 1415379659-Optimus77_0001.jpg 1415379683-Optimus77_0001_1.jpg 1415379707-Optimus77_0002.jpg 1415379728-Optimus77_0003.jpg 1415379751-Optimus77_0004.jpg 1415379771-Optimus77_0005.jpg 1415379792-Optimus77_0006.jpg 1415379812-Optimus77_0007.jpg

    I would guess that is't from end of 70's (or early 80's) since box has price tag 89 mk (Finnish marks). I bought my first Trangia on early 80's and it's price was just below 100 mk.
     
  2. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    17,064
    Hi, Afterburner,

    Very nice stove, and well done on scoring it! However, I'm not sure about the dating of it. Here are some photos of an early 77A, compared to a late model Optimus 91 "Purple Flame", which was gifted to me many years ago by a good friend at CCS. Note that the windscreen on your stove looks very similar to the one on the 91, and not like the 77A.

    1415383960-DSCN1768.JPG

    1415383974-DSCN1769.JPG

    1415383989-DSCN1770.JPG

    1415384006-DSCN1771.JPG

    See the differences? The burner on your stove looks different than the one with the 91, though, but the windscreen on yours looks to be later than the earlier 77A stoves, to me, anyway. Just food for thought. Great stove, in any case! Thanks for sharing, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2015
  3. tetley

    Offline
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    484
    great find :thumbup: .
    If the pans are 1.33 litre then it's midway in size between a 25 and a 27 series trangia, but the weight of a 27? or do optimus and trangia measure their pan's capacities differently?
     
  4. Afterburner

    Offline
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,096
    Thank's for both!

    Doc, that dating was just guessing based on price. I thought that stoves have had about the same price and prices get higher when years go further.

    In this thread strap lock has year 71 for a patent and whole stove (including the burner) look same that I have:

    https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/20988
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2015
  5. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    17,064
    Hi, Afterburner,

    If my memory is not faulty, which of course it might be, that strap was not made by Optimus. Those sorts of straps were used by Optimus, on lots of different stoves, and I would imagine that, as such, Optimus always had a huge stock of them on hand, some with pat. pending dates on them. Again, I could be wrong, but my own 77A was bought back in those days, used, and I know it's an early one. Note the simmering ring, with it's snap wires. A poor design, in my opinion, compared to the later ones, which have the sliding damper on the top, and allow you to have a range of simmering. In any case, I have a great book in which the stoves from 1978 were tested against one another. The 77A is in that book, and it is exactly like mine, and so is the strap, interestingly enough. I hope that others, who also have 77A stoves will chime in, so we can get a broad range of comments on the dating of these stoves. I know I am always up for learning new information, as it comes along, or, for that matter, old information, too!! ;) 8) :thumbup: :D Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  6. OMC

    OMC Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    3,316
    Location:
    ILLINOIS, USA
    Hi Afterburner, Doc n all,
    I thought this type Optimus cooker was fairly rare. Doc you have enlightened the topic, thx.

    Afterburner, Thx for sharing I very much enjoy your posts and like what I see here as well.
    I have one too and prior to Doc's input, I thought mine was like yours and both were the 77A model shown in the '76 catalog.
    I NOW see Doc's earlier version, my cooker, yours and the 91. IF your windscreen does not have the large holein the side that makes 4 different windscreens.
    My windscreen the divider is recessed (not flat like the other 2.
    No large hole in the side.
    My lid /pan is stamped w/same Optimus logo same as yours and as Iani's in the above link. My strap is like Iani's.


    I wanna say my burner is identical to yours, it has no lettering or markings on it. Oh, maybe preserve your burner as a virgin? Unlike the META 50 the Trangia/SVEA surplus burners are same dimensional size and fit the Optimus cooker.
    The holes / burner configuration is different. I compared performance w/o use of simmer ring and they were identical.
    1415393084-103_5929.JPG

    thx OMC
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2015
  7. afoton

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    488
    Doc, your burner to the left is a Trangia. Just look at the underside, there is a big 'T'.
     
  8. Afterburner

    Offline
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,096
    OMC,

    I don't know how rate these generally are, but at least here Trangia was and still is dominant in spirit stove market. This is first Optimus spirit stove that I have seen here. There has been lots of Far East Trangia copies in shops, but not so many other good quality spirit stoves except Trangia. Here Trangia is word what people use for all spirit operated similar type stoves here.

    I am not using spirit stoves any more so I think that burner and whole stove will stay as they are now. I just keep it to save the history...
    ____________________________
    One interesting found I made for dating... Stove has price sticker of service station chain that doesn't exist any more. That service station chain was sold for another company and it's name changed 1984. So that my stove has been price labelled before that time. Therefore I guess that my earlier dating estimate to early 80's is somewhere in appropriate range.

    If I am not remembering totally wrong I bought that my first Trangia on 1980. (I might have the receipt somewhere. I have to check it. :-& )

    edit: Burner of that 77a doesn't have any markings. Bottom of the burner there is co-centric pressed circles with diameter 70mm and 53mm.
     
  9. 111T

    111T Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2007
    Messages:
    1,863
    Location:
    Olean New York USA Earth
    I'm afraid I'm no help in dating. So which version is the Ledmark clone closest to?

    I have at least 6 of the clones stored away in various emergency kits and a dedicated 'user' to play around with and demo. I typically replace the pleather strap with a 24"arno strap and the Chinese burner with a trangia one. It's a good little system. I was surprised that the volume of the pots is so similar to the trangia 25. I've never directly compared the ledmark to the 77. Are they identical in size?

    ledmark at campmor
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2015
  10. Afterburner

    Offline
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,096
    Just for fun I went through reference library and there was only 1976 catalog (on page 4) https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/9220 that mentions 77a. Early 80's and later 80' catalogs don't have 77a. Of course that doesn't prove anything. :lol: Maybe 77a was in production up to 80's and then it was replaced by Trapper 81. 8-[

    That 1976 catalog tells that burning time with one fill is approximately 30 min. Maybe later (/last?) version of 77a had bigger burner since burning time is 40 min. :doh:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2015
  11. OMC

    OMC Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    3,316
    Location:
    ILLINOIS, USA
    A tidbit re specs,
    Re Classic stove much of the info re performance and specs contain exaggeration / inaccuracy / inconsistency (ie capacities, Burn times for 1 filling, boil times). Albeit flawed this info is relevant and always has been.

    Re specs and dims, ALSO the models undergo changes during production run, which can change specs year to year.

    Afterburner, I doubt Optimus went w/a larger burner, their claim of 40 mins would be w/simmer. W/o simmer, run time varies but certainly less than 40 mins. ...this, imo.
    My burner has rings on the bottom as you described.
    Oh, does your 77A bottom windscreen have the large hole in the side?

    As to 77A dims. I too read 1.33L capacity for the two 77A pots. My own measure is included below.

    Paul, Here's some info, a WIP not 100% verified but IS helpful as far as comparing the 3-4 cooksets, esp the 77A vs ledmark. IF you could, please, I ask a favor? at some point please add relevant ledmark specs. as I'm curious about that and others may want to know as well.

    Opti 77A pan/lid 1.20L (8"), pots: inner1.30L ~ outer 1.40L ( 7" ~ 7 1/2")

    brnr height 45 mm below pan

    META 50 pan/lid 1.3L (8 3/8"), pots: inner1.65L ~ outer1.65L (7 7/8" ~ 8")

    Trangia 25 ...., pots: inner 1.5L ~ outer 1.75L (6 7/8 ~ 7 1/8)

    oh btw w/ 72f temp for air & water, my (rolling) boil times w/77A: 1.0L @ 9.5 min, 0.5L @ 5 mins.
    thx OMC
     
  12. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    17,064
    Good Morning, Afterburner, and All,

    Yes, firm dating of these stoves is not always easy. I'm only going on the experience I, personally, have had with the 77A stove that I own. I bought it used, and the Trangia burner inside it, came with the stove, dirty, and well used, just like the aluminum windscreen and pots. The strap, too, came with the stove, and the lot is identical to the book about testing stoves. The photos and tests in this book, were originally done in 1976, and first published in Backpacker Magazine in that year. The book was published in 1978, and it contained all the in depth testing that Backpacker Magazine did back in those days. To me, that is the only hard and factual information I've ever found on the 77A. I do hope more info comes to the fore, someday, and firmly believe that it will, eventually. Until that time, I believe my Optimus 77A (or maybe it's the original 77, with no "A"??) is the oldest one I've yet seen. Time will tell, one way, or the other.

    As to fuel capacities, burning times, and boiling times, I've seen Optimus change their own ratings plenty of times over the years!! I usually check each stove, when I get it, to see how much fuel it can hold, safely, and that is it's actual fuel capacity. Then, I fill it, and boil water in various locations, and elevations, and those combined times give me an average boiling time. Finally, I fill each stove, and let them burn until the fuel is exhausted, and that gives me the actual burn time of that stove, give or take a little bit. Specifications, alone, are not always a good and trustworthy source to learn what YOUR stove might offer you. But, they are a great place to begin, which works well for me. Sorry to ramble...... Got carried away! :oops: ;) :lol: :lol: Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  13. Afterburner

    Offline
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,096
    Those burn time and capacity measures were just what was printed on the user manual and the box. Date must be 1984 or before since logo in price tag has not been used after that. Everything else is just guessing... :content:
     
  14. OMC

    OMC Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    3,316
    Location:
    ILLINOIS, USA
    So Doc n all re ... "hope more info comes to the fore, someday"
    that someday PASSED us by, it was a ca 1973 Optimus ad posted here back in '08.
    https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/334
    That ad came up in a very recent post of mine and "maybe" easy to remember if you note 73 ad introduced this sequence 77a, 88 and 99 (I'm thinking, indirectly introduced the 123R as well?).

    Re the 77 / 77A example you shared as being among the oldest. We see 73 vintage now vs yours dated to 78, possibly 76.
    I don't know what to make of your bottom holes on only 1 side but note the strap loops in your pan lid. The 73 ad shows older type strap loops. The 76 brochure does not show the lid / pan (no loops to see).

    My Optimus storm cooker has the old type strap loops as shown in 73 ad BUT w/my addl searching I found the Optimus 88 (alcohol) ALSO has those older loops.
    So now, I'm not sure if mine is a No 88 or 77A. I'm guessing 88 predates the 77A (they're basically same cooker w/number changed to 77A) and I'm seeing no mention of a 77 btw.

    As mentioned above, my divider plate that the burner sets on is recessed and unlike any others posted.
    The 88 does NOT boast stamped Optimus logo on pan lid although it might be there? The 88 shows a alcohol burner w/"OPTIMUS" on the burner lid. My alcohol burner has zero markings on it. It sure seems like afterburner and I have the same unmarked burner from Optimus.
    The 88 has straps on the outer pot, mine does not.

    So there ya have it, I FOUND that "info we hope for": there's a 77A "new" in 73 w/old style strap loops. Meanwhile I ADDED more questions!! sorry, I guess. my best to all, omc
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2015
  15. geneislucky

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    308
    On Nov 8, 2014 Old Man Coleman asked for comparative measurements for the Ledmark Trekmate cook set. Per the box the specs are
    Skillet 8 inch dia, and 1.8 inches deep;
    pot 1 volume 6 cups, 7.5 inch x 3 inch
    pot 2 volume 4 cups, 7 inch x 2.5 inch.

    Note the skillet is not flat on the bottom but has a frying diameter of 6 inches.

    The burner sits below the bottom of the pot about 1 inch.
     
  16. OMC

    OMC Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    3,316
    Location:
    ILLINOIS, USA
    Hi,
    Thank you Geneislucky for this: "Ledmark Skillet 8 inch dia, and 1.8 inches deep; pot 1 volume 6 cups, 7.5 inch x 3 inch, pot 2 volume 4 cups, 7 inch x 2.5 inch"...
    Now we've a lil more info to work with, as mentioned, it's a WIP not 100% verified but IS helpful info re these FOUR comparable alcohol storm cookers:

    Trangia 25 ....,
    pots: inner 1.5L ~ outer 1.75L (6 7/8 ~ 7 1/8)
    (brnr height 25 mm below pot)
    >Trangia Burner (base is 70 mm dia.)

    META 50 pan/lid 1.3L (8 3/8"),
    pots: inner 1.65L ~ outer 1.65L (7 7/8" ~ 8")
    > Military Surplus burner (SVEA/Trangia etc)

    Opti 77A pan/lid 1.20L (8"),
    pots: inner1.30L ~ outer 1.40L ( 7" ~ 7 1/2")
    btw written specs" both pots are 1.33L.
    (brnr height 30 mm below pot, 45 mm under pan).
    > Unmarked burner w/simmer ring (Size same as Military Surplus burner SVEA/Trangia etc, base is 83 mm dia)

    Converting latest info:
    Ledmark Trekmate pan/lid (8"),
    pots: inner .94L ~ outer 1.40L (7" ~ 7 1/2")
    (brnr height 25mm below pot)
    > ?

    Afterthought: capacity-wise Trangia Burner 100 ml vs Military Surplus approx. 150 ml ... that is not to say bigger is better.
    As much as bench boil times get a mixed reception on CCS, it's a key factor for me, I am sorry that I don't have that info. thx omc
     
  17. Lennart F Sweden

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    736
    Location:
    Vänersborg, Sweden
    Comparing the Chinese Optimus clones(every dealer seem to have their own brand) to my Swedish military ones(marked SVEA) - they are very similar in size and form with only crucial difference in material gauge and burner size.

    I have no hands on experience from the civilian Optimus but from pictures I can tell the first version is similar to the military but with the smaller burner, next simplified detail production(said to be same in late military) - and then two versions, one with civil size burner and the other military size(same happened with 80's Polish Wisla) - last version with holes for gas/multifuel burners.

    The civilian with big burner seems to have used some different burner holders as the military burner is higher and larger diameter with nearly identical effect as the civilian.
     
  18. Lennart F Sweden

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    736
    Location:
    Vänersborg, Sweden
    Today I bought my second civilian Optimus of this design - marked Optimus International, will examine later to try telling exact version.