Discussion in 'Optimus No:88 (petrol, white gas)' started by bajabum, Aug 3, 2009.
Box and all - nice score.
The earlier 1 pan version. Pricker & built in cleaning needle?
I had to go look at it, you are correct, it's a 123R with needle AND a new pricker...
Oh well, both are semi-rare 8)
I've been watching and hoping a long time for this one !
Very nice Steve 8)
That is a nice set.
Almost 4 years has gone by, but I have to ask ..... why would you have a pricker with a 123R?
Ken in NC
Because it was...free!
It came with the stove, and is probably worth more than the 123R...
Baja, Nice kit, it's unique, thank you for sharing (in Aug of 08!).
I have to update my inventory > Optimus No 88 missing pot ...the early version !!
Also back in 08 a nice one page Optimus ad was posted ca 1973.
Let's hear it for Ross,
Hip hip hooray! hip hip hooray !!! What a GREAT site.
WHERE ELSE can we have the same few guys able to continue a discussion FIVE years later. So here goes,
New facts may be available, opinions may change but this question "could have" been asked back in '08.
Meanwhile the more you find out about stove history the more it gets curiouser and curiouser.
RE "The earlier 1 pan version. Pricker & built in cleaning needle?"
When you say "The earlier version"... would that be the first version of the 88?
or could there even be an ...earlier ... earlier version?
If this is the first version, there is a 1973 ad that says "NEW for 1973 !", an ad that includes an 88 w/SVEA stove.
Does this indicate the 123R was out in 73?
(others may know it's 73 but I'm not clear on it as I've often heard 74)
That ad as wonderful as it is, is not necessarily completely accurate depictions.
>> For one example the 73 ad shows a SVEA 123 in the 88 cook set which may be right? OR like what OFTEN occurs it's not accurate BUT Optimus wants us think it's a 123R (pictures and diagrams used are often not the most current examples).
AND BTW FYI stovies (Afterburner, Doc), the same ad indicates our No 77A was also "new" in '73 as well as the No 99.
>> Some documentation may say "NEW" or seem like a stove introduction but an earlier example may exist. The 77A is NOT in the 72 catalog (so is it new in 73?), BUT WAIT the Optimus SVEA 123 is not in 72 catalog either. They left out the 123, did they leave out the 77A? Stove documentation is rarely 100% accurate.
So there ya have it, a question that loomed 5 years just waiting to be asked. Was the 123R out in 1973?
the inquisitive omc
OLD THREAD ALERT.
In this thread you refer to Baja's Optimus 88 as the "earlier 1 pan version" and @OMC has commented on the possible date of 1973 as the introduction of the 88 with the 123R.
I have just acquired one of these (I think), unfortunately without the lid/pan and with a box that is missing its top folding flaps (therefore no date; no paperwork either). I will post in the Reference Galley soonish.
Ross, could you speculate on the period of production of the one pan version?
It's been a while, I'll comment.
1st, re OP: We're thankful for the contributions to content Steve's posts had made over many years. This one in 2009. He did tend to get to the point. I had learned many details from him already by then. RIP Steve.
Re Tony's : " @OMC has commented on the possible date of 1973 as the introduction of the 88 with the 123R."
Re 123R, first a mention, meanwhile I've done some homework (ie one ongoing side project).
Since 2014, above comment, I continue to seek details. Now, given what I've found, a revised comment:
All indicators are that the Optimus Svea 123R was offered in 1973.
The first version of the 88 came with a Svea 123R.
I'll add details:
There are now many many dated Svea 123 examples up to 1972. Zero have emerged w/"73" date.
Take them at their word, the 88 was "NEW in 73", all 88s to-date came with 123R.
I grant you it is *odd that the 123R is not mentioned in 73 ad.
I could guess a number of plausible reasons.
I know there are countless *oddities, contradictions, inaccuracies within Optimus catalogs, brochures and ads.
If my suggestion holds, the *123R absent in "NEW for 73" ad is odd.
It has been said and I concur, the 123R replaced the 123.
> Surely the day the 1st 123R came off the production line there were 123s on retail shelves. A printed receipt of a 123 purchased in 73 might yet emerge but I'd guess the box top will be stamped '72 (if it hasn't faded away or wasn't stamped).
> What was never clear to me is, how many production lines/facilities produced the 123?
These are 2 factors that will blur any date/year that 123 production ended or when 123R began.
[We may yet learn > the 1st 88 came with a 123? or > the 123R came only w/the 88 at first and offered by itself later, or >what? I've not yet found support for alternatives.
I suggest the 123R was offered in 73.
I don't feel like I'm "out on a limb" with this suggestion... did I just hear a crack]
Re Tony's: “I have just acquired one of these [an 88 ]...”
he has since posted it here .
Credit him for the 88 with this sticker on the box “NEW now with two sauce pans”
Re Tony's: “Ross, could you speculate on the period of production of the one pan version? “
Tony, Ross, Trevor, all,
“88 1 pan” production began 1973.
“88N 2 pan” production began not later than '76.
Details:73 ad offers No.88, one sauce pan.
76 brochure offers 88 two sauce pans.
78 Parts list offers an 88N.
Ah ha, shall we take a closer look at 76 brochure, under the 2911 pump, it too refers to an 88N.
So far, if “88N” is used it refers to [New] 88 kits with two sauce pans.
So maybe 2 pan version is an 88N, what do you think?
gotta run, can follow up later thx omc
[Ross, If you happen to agree. Maybe consider changing the subtitle in the 76 catalog from 88 to 88N ]
@Tony Press @Spiritburner @shagratork
OMC, I also find the minutia of the printed documents very interesting.
I am sure that you have summed up the 88 information well.
I also feel sure that you have been using my Swedish stove manufacturers spreadsheets!
You are correct in pointing out that my Optimus 88 is not an early one (as the box attests!). It is just missing some parts.
I agree with your dating on the basis of the evidence.
OLD THREAD, an observation:
A difference oldest vs newer.
Tony's newer 2 pan version has bail wire to secure 123R.
The fastener setup of Baja's early 1 pan version has no bail wire,
instead the 2 fastener points resemble that of the SIGG Tourist.
Separate names with a comma.