Optimus No.1S c.1915 or a little later?

Discussion in 'Optimus No:1(inc. S & J)' started by igh371, Dec 17, 2019.

  1. igh371

    igh371 SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,694
    Location:
    Durham
    DSC09648.JPG
    Another external-NRV Optimus No.1, and with yet another combination of small details to throw into the discussion mix regarding the precise dating and timeline sequencing of these external-NRV models. The fact that this is a '1S' version and it has feet answers one question asked previously(c/f). Now at least we can see that some later budget ('S') versions did have feet on the legs. A relatively late in external-NRV Optimus production also seems to be suggested by the filler cap and pressure release screw combination which is the same as this slightly later early internal NRV example.

    As a 'user', and after the sorting out of numerous little niggles, this is now a cracking little roarer . The burner itself is a slightly later date Optimus service replacement unit.

    DSC09650.JPG DSC09651.JPG DSC09652.JPG DSC09649.JPG DSC09653.JPG DSC09654.JPG DSC09656.JPG DSC09657.JPG



    @OMC @gieorgijewski @abbahco1
     
  2. gieorgijewski

    gieorgijewski Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,436
    later - i'll check my example
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2019
  3. gieorgijewski

    gieorgijewski Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,436
    1S nickled
    top tank as Yours
    [​IMG]
    DSCF9201.JPG DSCF9194.JPG

    fuel cap (body) on done on lathe
    DSCF9195.JPG DSCF9196.JPG DSCF9197.JPG DSCF9198.JPG

    short legs
    DSCF9200.JPG
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2019
  4. igh371

    igh371 SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,694
    Location:
    Durham
    @gieorgijewski - great corroboration, so that's 2, both with feet on the legs, and both with the same specification filler caps and pressure release screws. The fact that those latter 2 fitments are the same would seem to give confidence that they are the original fitments and not accidental later replacements.
    Ian:thumbup:
     
  5. gieorgijewski

    gieorgijewski Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,436
    tank bottom stamping fits circle 23 mm diameter (check diameter in Yours)
    filler cap:
    die is the same
    my stamping is "older"
    Yours - made with more used die
     
  6. igh371

    igh371 SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,694
    Location:
    Durham
    @gieorgijewski - yes, base stamps both same size. Good point about the relative signs of wear on the dies used for those base markings.
    Ian:thumbup:
     
  7. gieorgijewski

    gieorgijewski Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,436
    moment...
    small resume:
    examples
    1 my
    o1n.JPG

    2 Optimus No.1S c.1912-14 o1igh1.JPG

    3 from current topic o1igh2.JPG

    -----------------------------------------
    if S (photo 3) OPTIMUS No 1 S is the same - then
    every 3 examples has different top tank stamping.
    Because my and "2" are not the same.

    this moment i can say nothing about "2" fuel cap design, "1" and "3" are the same

    on bottom stamping in Yours - used "maltesee cross"
    seems it is older version
    and
    "ghotic S" from "3" -> seems to be older then "rounded" from "2"
    my example seems to be youngest
    "3" oldest
    ------------
    We need "find similar short legs" (as in my) - example
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
  8. gieorgijewski

    gieorgijewski Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,436
    optimus1ni..jpg
    [​IMG]
    short legs
     
  9. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Messages:
    12,560
    Location:
    Far North of Scotland
  10. Lennart F Sweden

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    939
    Location:
    Vänersborg, Sweden
    Maybe it's time for me to take a closer look at my external nrv Optimuses.
     
  11. igh371

    igh371 SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,694
    Location:
    Durham
    (- my emphasis - IGH)


    Hi Gieorgi, 'seems', but not actually the case. The almost 'black letter' Gothic script does give an antiquated look to us now, but in fact it was adopted by Optimus closer to 1920 (see e.g. these 1920s internal NRV No.1s). The simpler tank top script is actually the earlier and found also on pre-1911 Optimus production (eg this pre-1911 Optimus 100). The pre-1915 Optimus No.1s also share the simpler script alongside this combination of filler cap with an incuse script pressure release screw:
    DSC01959.JPG

    So put into a sequential timeline we get:
    1. Those with the plain cut legs, all-incuse script ancillaries and simpler tank top script are the earliest (and probably all a few years before 1915). The earliest versions sharing these features also had had the word 'Patent' incorporated into the tank top legends (e.g.).
    2. The version you label above as '2' (this), which still has plain cut legs, comes next, but still just pre-1915.
    3. Followed by your nice nickel plated example which has legs with feet and the next iteration filler cap, but still the simpler tank top font (link). This would also be the place in this timeline for @kerophile 's No.1 Travelling Optimus.
    4. And finally, last of all, the youngest, closest to around end of WW1 must be the stove in this current thread which shares most features with your nickel-plate example, but which now features the more Gothic type tank top script and the more elaborate separator crosses in the tank base stamp.

    These discussions certainly make you think! If only we had more comprehensive Optimus catalogue information or Optimus had had a dating system like Primus life would be so much easier!
    Ian:thumbup:


    @abbahco1 @OMC @gieorgijewski
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
  12. gieorgijewski

    gieorgijewski Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,436
    o.k. - and thanks for above...
    ---------------------
    OPTIMUS
    A.B. OPTIMUS
    A/B OPTIMUS

    STOCKHOLM
    Stockholm


    1 OPTIMUS STOCKHOLM
    2
    OPTIMUS Stockholm

    3 A.B. OPTIMUS STOCKHOLM
    4 A.B. OPTIMUS Stockholm

    5 A/B OPTIMUS STOCKHOLM
    6 A/B OPTIMUS Stockholm

    bottom/base
    filer cap

    i must check them - is existed
    ---------------

    i need "do my homework"
    btw
    it looks as the same story as early PRIMUS bottom stamping
    especially "Stockholm" version
     
  13. abbahco1

    abbahco1 Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
    Messages:
    332
    Not to mention the angle of the air release screw. On Optimus models after about 1915, this is always angled towards the right, rather than being placed at 90 degrees to the tank. On this one, you see the angle clearly as 90 degrees.
     
  14. igh371

    igh371 SotM Winner Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,694
    Location:
    Durham
    "this one" being the oldest of the set drawn into the discussion here, i.e. the pre-1915 cap twinned with the incuse name pressure release. So yet another useful dating indicator:thumbup:
     
  15. Steven Whalley Australia

    Offline
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Australia
    A "model 1914" stamp is seen on the top rim of my optimus no1,has anyone seen this before? Legs have feet and optimus burner has Arabic and Russian writing on it. Polishing this up for display as it is to damaged to restore to use 16137786827182340638041642362488.jpg 16137787287517205085459927053313.jpg 16137787527987023139221396005645.jpg 16137786827182340638041642362488.jpg 16137787287517205085459927053313.jpg 16137787527987023139221396005645.jpg 16137788774362393735148018942678.jpg
     
  16. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

    Offline
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2013
    Messages:
    7,222
    Location:
    Stinkpot Bay, Howden, Tasmania, Australia
    @Steven Whalley

    I’ve not seen that type of marking an Optimus before, as far as I recall.

    Cheers

    Tony