Poor mans T ?41???

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by barrabruce, Jun 28, 2007.

  1. barrabruce

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    Umm can't seem to use the seach thing on the forum to look up the primus stove catalogues etc.Don't work for me comes up with just a blank.

    Thinking of making a WeeT or something.
    These 4142 burners any info be appreciated.
    Hieght to pan/ flame spread
    Boil time etc..

    justarrived.jpg
    One the left just thinking!!!
    God knows how this one will end up if I do it.
    Don't want to create a fieball stove just a nice going something maybe!!
    Thanks
    Bruce
    8)
    Think Iv'e turned in to a proper luny stove nutter now :D
     
  2. Ian

    Ian Subscriber

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    Look at all them! :shock:

    You must be a Collector.
     
  3. Ian

    Ian Subscriber

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    Look at all them! :shock:

    You must be a Collector.
    ..............................................
     
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  4. barrabruce

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    Not a Collector Ian just evaluating some brassy cooking devices to see if they are any good for anything.
    Haven't got enough to be deamed one.
    Although the projects of late seem to have come all at once and time is short..

    Barra
    P.s Still haven't got the enders on the 99 quite working spot on.Went to look up the enders thing to see how the caps are suppposed to be. If I remeber there was something in the instructions about them.
     
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  5. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    G'day Bruce, Let's see if I can help you.
    I have just fitted a 4142 burner to a Primus No 10 stove:

    DSCN0004_edited-19.jpg

    The 4142 burner is the silent equivalent of the 4129 Roarer burner commonly fitted to the Primus No.2 stove. They have essentially the same performance.

    Primus fitted the 4142 burner to the 4.25 pint tank used for the Primus No 2 stove and called it the Primus No 6 stove.

    You asked about performance: The 4142 burner will use about 0.62 litres of kerosene per hour. A Primus No1 or 5 uses about 0.3 litres per hour to produce around 2.4kW.
    The 4142 is therefore twice as powerful and must be putting out around 5kw.

    The 1957 Primus catalogue claims that the No. 6 stove, fitted with a 4142 burner will boil 5 litres of water in 7-8 minutes.

    For comparison, the same catalogue reckons that a No1 or No.5 stove will boil 1 litre of water in 3-4 minutes.

    You also asked about burner to pan distance. I measured the set-up on the Primus no 10 that I show in the photo. The burner is actually very close to the base of the pan. I make the separation from the top of the domed burner cap to the bottom of the pan as being between 10 and 12 mm.

    Good Luck with your manufacturing.

    I hope this info helps. If you need anything else, just ask.
    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
  6. brassnipplekey

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    Way to go Bruce ,
    The twin lugs/upstands on the top of that BIG boy tank are just begging for a heatshield to be fixed to them ........ 5kw+- silent ehh?? That ought to boil yer crabs... whatever size they are :) .... Your proposed set up ' looks right' :) .. fix it up , fire it up & show us the flame .

    nick
     
  7. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    G'day Bruce. Interesting suggestion from BNK.
    See attached link;
    http://


    This is what your range or stove might look like if you follow his advice. It would of course be twice as powerful as this one.
    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
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  8. barrabruce

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    Nice Kerophile BNK?? Rm stovette you mean??

    Pre-limanary photos.
    Pre heat
    preheat.jpg
    Good steam up of the burner
    steamup.jpg
    3 litre billy boiled
    biolingbest.jpg
    Billy went on at 36 past boiled 14-13 to makes it about 10 11 min.
    If you look at the fire bricks there is scalding where the flame has hit them.
    Not bad at all.


    Pulses when going and I think its to do with the feed tube.
    May have to try a restrictor in it somewhere if you think it may help some.
    Very slow but it is a big pulse when this thing does.Gets faster when pumped up more obviuosly.
    Well please though.
    May need a good reflector as the tank got warm ish and helped to pressurise it betterer.

    Try a wee splash of kero tomorrow maybe 1/2 litre or so!

    When sorted tank clean up and support!!
    Could take me a while thou..don't hold you breath.

    Barra
     
  9. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    G'day Bruce. You now have "proof of concept" and can move onto the next stage. I have checked the 1957 Primus Catalogue produced by BA Hjorth on the subject of restrictors.

    Both the Primus 2 and 3 use big roarer burners; the 4192 for the No.2 and 4131 for the bigger No.3. The 4131 has what I believe is a restrictor ( the Swedish word used in the Catalogue is Inloppsmunstycke). This takes the form of a tightly-rolled cylindrical wad of brass gauze, about 6-8mm in height, which is a tight fit in the base of the burner
    (inside the threaded portion)

    Interestingly neither of the big silent burners, the 4140 used in the Primus no.25, nor the bigger 4142 used in the Primus no.6 show any restrictor on the detailed drawings.

    I think it would be worthwhile installing a restrictor on your burner to see if it helps eliminate the pulsing you mention. The gauze method is easily applied and quickly reversible if it doesn't work.

    I hope this helps.
    Keep up good work.
    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
  10. barrabruce

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    yep thought something like that.
    May help in vaporizing too.
    If I turn her down a bit I get yellow flames so either it needs a good settling in or Iv'e pricked it with the wrong pricker by mistake.
    Blurts of yellow flame every now and again. think it water or crap comming throught tank or oil or some other thing.
    Cleaned it But think its muck of some sort.

    Retrofited it to a old s/s stand I had.
    The plate buckles upwards with the heat and the burner just fits in.
    space is awfull smll.
    see what I can do. no reflector an it gets hot in places.but not really that bad.
    Think I'lll raise the pan holder.May bring the pot in the max heat zone but lifting 10 litres of boiling water just so is abit beyond me tonight.
    Pic of flame. Nice and blue.
    smllgap.jpg
    yep 35 min boil time not bad about 10 deg C here f'n freezing.
    10litres.jpg
    Better than 60 -75 min with normal 2 pinter burner.

    When the site kicks in properly look up the monsters burners !then.

    Time will tell its late and I may go fishing tomorrow when I defost about 2pm or something!!
    Barra
     
  11. brassnipplekey

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    ... an old s/s stand i had ... just happened to find lying around !!.... whats the stand off Bruce?? is it really stainless?? .... looks interesting :D .. useful ... kind of old & useful ..
    Nice , old & useful .... Aladdin??

    nick
     
  12. barrabruce

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    I think its a primus 535??? or something or other Nick!!
    You want it.
    Any one??
    May put a post somewhere before I demolish it.
    Think its nickle s/s or something or other.
    Non magetized but bit rusty around pot supports.
    Propably take 50 more years to be a problem though.
    Could be a boat one.

    Got a nice newish S/s Alladin here in very nice nick Nick
    Burners I aint looked at though.
    Not my cup of tea either but it looked to good to let go.


    :D :D :D :D Wife says I'm F'N mad
    :shock: She could be tring to tell me something!!

    Barra
     
  13. brassnipplekey

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    Mornin, Following from KPs suggestion to put a gauze in .. i took a look at some PRIMUS No.3 burners ..Interesting .. the OLD style burner (Left) has a gauze & a restriction hole , in a screwed on bucket .. the hole is smaller than the No.3 nipple size .. quite a lot smaller .. its the pretty much standard 0.32mm .. opti 00,1,5,45,48.... svea 1,5,105/6,121,126 primus 1,5,100 .... did i miss any ?? :D you know..... that size .
    The new burner has only a gauze in it ..... perhaps suggesting that the '2nd ' smaller nipple is surplus to requirements ... or a pain in the a***e ... I found mine to be well & truly blocked .
    Pics show all i hope

    PICT2218.jpg

    PICT2225.jpg

    PICT2226.jpg

    PICT2227.jpg

    Hope this helps ... As KP says .... no harm in trying .. let us know if it makes a positive difference .... if it doesnt seem to have any effect , id be tempted to leave the gauze in as a 'crap' filter.
    Enjoying yer Frankenstove creation ... keep it going .

    nick
     
  14. barrabruce

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    did that just then
    gauze no real help
    The rise had a 1/4 inch hole in it to the burner.
    put a bolt with a small hole in it say 1/16th.
    Pulsates less but slower at low.
    Still have to pump up hard to get a good flame but is one of a heck better.

    maybe the small horraface is a pain in the ..but it would stop the pressure blowing back down them big tubes as much.

    Clogging would be a pain
    can't see another way around it
    maybe a ball bearing flow valve if you can get it so seal proper??

    some sort of big oriface vlave thing..hydralic weird theorm stuff maybe I can't see it yet ..to stop /slow pressure release to that side.


    next effort when I get time.
     
  15. barrabruce

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    Ahh tapped the riser tube
    5/16 th bsw if it matters.
    bit of a nick a thread start and ends to help ensure flow thought the sloppy fit of tap and rolled threaded s/s srew.
    Couple of cigg butts for filter(yep he's at it again) and it works as good as I can hope I think.
    restrictor.jpg
    Taken on a pristine vice perfectly matching jaws an all.

    If some one posts a flame of one of theirs on low/simmer I will know how good she is.
    No pulse from a high low I think to flat out. Bit hard to judge with these critters!!!

    Final one when I got it up and sorted.

    Be one af a great crab boiler.
    Don't know how one could call it a simmering burner though!!!
    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: very wind blown flame with the hand 4-5 inches above burner. Still covers a 7 inch billy bottom.is as low s I can get on this critter at the mo any way.
    Not much pressure at all.Think that bits done anyway!!!!

    Cheers and thanks all
    Bruce
    Thanks KP andBN not as purdy as a tapped knurled machined screaned thingo but funtional I think till it clogs anyway!!!
     
  16. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    G'day Bruce, Now that is what I call a flow restrictor!

    You asked about simmer setting on a big burner; check this out:

    Flame Pattern

    Best Regards,
    Kerophile
     
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  17. johnsnz

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    Hi Bruce,

    I think the stove you are using as the basis of your conversion is a Primus 523.. Which is quite a nice old thing in it's own right!! ;) ;)

    Here take a look at this link

    Link

    The basic difference between a 527 and 523 is the 527 has the pot rails. Does your stove base show any signs of having it's marine rails chopped off????

    I think early 527's were Galvanized steel and later 527's were made from Stainless steel and 523's were painted ( or enamelled) .So maybe the factory made later 523's in Stainless steel also???

    Either way your 'donor' stove is a nice old thing in it's own right..

    Cheers

    John
     
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  18. Canadian Iain

    Canadian Iain Subscriber

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    Has anyone have any information on the pot bars for the 527?

    Size and finish would be most helpful.

    Iain
     
  19. johnsnz

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    Hi Iain,

    yep I need some also... I'm thinking of just measuring the holes and slots where they fit.

    from memory thise look to be about 10mm in Dia. Then just get some suitable stock and just machine on a full radius on each end then get them electrogalved...

    I'll knock up a sketch and PM over to you if you like.

    Cheers

    John
     
  20. Canadian Iain

    Canadian Iain Subscriber

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    Hey John,

    If you could post the picture here on Spiritburners, it would be there for all. Would Stainless steel cause too many problems with the dissimilar metals issue?

    Iain