Prentiss-Waber #405

Discussion in 'Prentiss Wabers (Preway)' started by Doc Mark, Jul 19, 2012.

  1. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark Subscriber

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    Good Morning, All,

    I am posting this on behalf of my good friend, Joe Pagan, who sent me the photos and his description of this neat old, and I think somewhat rare, PW stove! I'll post the note from Joe, then the photos. If you have any questions about this, I'm sure he would be very happy to answer them, as always. Thanks, Joe, for sharing this old PW with us!

    From here on, is what Joe sent me:

    Prentiss Wabers Model 405 stove made at least 1936.

    While it is not shown in the main PW '36 catalogue, I have a supplemental brochure that came with the catalogue that shows this stove only. It was a new model introduced during the production year. What is unusual about this stove is that PW painted it black and not the usual green. In fact, 1921 was the last time PW painted their stoves black. This stove also has no wind wings and while PW continued to make the burner manifold assembly mounted with the fuel tank as one unit, as was their practice for the previous years since 1925, PW designed this so the burner assembly slides into the stove from a large opening on the right side of the stove body, along a guide, which is on the inside bottom of the stove with the burner assembly having a counterpart guide that overlaps the stove guide and the fuel tank goes underneath the stove body itself.

    Removal of the generator requires one to loosen a square nut placed underneath the main burner, then one slides the burner assembly back about 1/2". Then one can turn the generator/fuel valve away at an angle so as to permit removal of the burner assembly. Re-assembly is the reverse. The fuel valve itself is screwed on to a pipe nipple, which extends up from the tank about 3 inches or so. As you can imagine, the fuel pickup tube is rather long.

    Why Prentiss Wabers designed it this way is unknown. But when one looks at the stove itself, it appears that this stove was designed to be an entry level model for the budget minded camper or for those who want a basic stove for picnics. Nothing fancy about it like its stablemates.

    While I knew this stove model existed, this is the first one I have ever seen or come across. Of course, there may be others out there but they have yet to surface. I know the 400 series of stoves do come up on eBay(Models 401, 408, 409 & 412) but this model would appear to be one vary rare later model stove.

    Paint is original to the stove. No re-painting has been done. Just a cleaning and polish of the stove body & fuel tank paint with the burner assembly and wire grate undergoing a thorough cleaning.

    Photos:

    1342716198-Prentiss_Wabers_405_Stove-2_001.jpg

    1342716226-Prentiss_Wabers_405_Stove-2_002.jpg

    1342716385-Prentiss_Wabers_405_Stove-2_003.jpg

    1342716420-Prentiss_Wabers_405_Stove-2_004.jpg

    1342716641-Prentiss_Wabers_405_Stove-2_005.jpg

    1342716685-Prentiss_Wabers_405_Stove-2_006.jpg

    1342716709-Prentiss_Wabers_405_Stove-2_007.jpg

    On behalf of Joe, many thanks for looking at this old Prentiss Waber #405!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2015
  2. RonPH

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    Hey Doc, another odd design by PB, glad you helped out Joe posting the pictures. Seems to me the PW's are more subtle as far a the flames are concerned or perhaps because they are silent burners. It looks to me in very good condition :thumbup:

    Ron
     
  3. Rick b

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    Hi Doc, Thanks for posting this. Nice to see the stoves brought back to life. Really the paint on the tank and box are in very good condition for its age and rareity.
     
  4. coleman413c

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    My heartfelt thanks to Doc Mark for doing this for me and to all of you for your kind compliments.

    Actual paint in person is not as nice as in the pictures. Lots of scratches, etc but most of the paint is intact. But this is one stove that will not receive a complete restoration to its paint. I felt it was better off in a "as found" condition.

    150kb is the smallest picture my digital camera will make and of course, this site will only take 100kb or less. I have no software on my computer to reduce these pictures for me so I asked Doc if he would be so kind as to upload them for me.

    Again, Thank You Doc Mark, for helping me out.

    Joe Pagan
     
  5. Doc Mark

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    Good Morning, All,

    Joe, I was happy to be able to help you in this small way, and thank you, again, for sharing this very nice old PW with us here at CCS. You have been a part of the Stove Community for many years, and your own sharing is very well known. I, too, have benefited from your kindness and sharing. So, I was very happy when you asked about this, and because the photos you sent were not too much larger than what is allowed here, resizing and posting them was fairly short work, and a pleasure to undertake. Thanks, again, Joe, and Here's to you finding more such rare and interesting variations to share here! Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  6. mr optimus

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    Hi Doc and Joe what a very nice, PW suitcase stove it realy looks a head of it's time.
    And in realy nice condition, even with the few scratches, and as you mention it looks better in the photo's, i can understand you not wanting to cary out a full restoration, keeping the paint work in original condition.lokking at the pics of the burner and grill i dont think it has been used much,unless these parts have been replaced at some time.
    Your 405 realy does give a great flame in fact it looks like a modern gasie flame pattern,a great addition to your collection,and will be perfect for a family camp
     
  7. coleman413c

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    Actually, the burner parts are original to the stove and it did see a lot of use. It's the cleaning solution I used that got it to clean up as well as it did, along with fine steel wool. What little didn't come off, I used a wire wheel. Same with the wire grate. This stuff much like as if I used electrolysys.
     
  8. idahostoveguy

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    Doc, Joe,

    A very interesting stove. You can always count on Prentiss Wabers to come up with some interesting designs.

    This stove is quite far and away different from any of the designs that most stove manufacturers were using at that time. They were radical thinkers to come up with something like this. Another one that I can think of is this one in the SRG:

    Itchy's PW folding stove

    I keep wondering what would have happened if they had continued in business to this day. From my research, it appears that these very designs caused a bit of risk that turned into a litigation against the company that appears to be one of the first times that a company was made responsible for personal injury to a consumer.

    Thanks for sharing this unique and rare version,
    sam
     
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  9. coleman413c

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    Thank you, Sam. A very interesting stove it is. It does look like that some PW engineers were trying to think outside the "box" in some designs.

    And in some of my research as well, I did come across some litigation cases against PW at one time or another. But I'm sure other manufacturers probably went through the same thing.

    And thanks for adding the link to Itchy's unusual folding stove. I had forgotton about that one and that has to be one of the coolest stoves ever made. It literally screams "Prentiss Wabers" but other than the pump that he shows, one can't be totally sure.

    But that is one stove worth trying to find out in the wild.
     
  10. Wim

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    Hi Joe & Sam,
    is there a way to more or less date PW's? Like colour, use of separate pump/build in one, changes to burners etc. . I'd like to narrow down the 'time-line' when my N°8 was made you see. It is a working stove, and will be used for car camping. I cannot compare it to a Coleman or similar from the same era (my Coleman 414 is an '80's model) but quality looks to be first class and it is very user-friendly. It seems to me there is not a lot of literature on them (at least not on CCS).

    All the best,

    Wim
     
  11. idahostoveguy

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    Hi Wim,

    The best way to date PW stoves is by catalog. I believe Joe has several of the catalogs to date them. Secondary to that is advertisements in old magazines and newspapers from the early days, if available. After that, it would be documentation and instructions that came with the stove. Comparison with other models from the same manufacturer helps too.

    Personally, I would date the No 8 at mid to late 1920s to early 30s. I have a couple of those and they seem to have similar parts to the No 7 and late No 4s.

    sam
     
  12. Wim

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    Hi Sam, thanks for your reply! It confirms the info Cabofdoom gave me (I swapped the P-W for another stove I send to CoD). I searched the SRG and SRL here at CCS but not much has been posted on them. There are other N°8's but with a suffix so I guess these are later models? Anyway, I like this stove a lot, looks very well made (like most things from that era, no unnecessary over-engineering, just solid proper thinking). Once cosmetically cleaned up it will be a user!

    Thanks again,

    all the best,

    Wim
     
  13. coleman413c

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    Wim:

    My apologies for not answering sooner.

    First of all, Sam is correct in that one needs to have catalogues. If none, then adverts, pamphlets, directions manuals, etc to be able to reasonably date these stoves.

    Sam is also pretty well right on in the rough date range. At least 1926 to about 1929-1930.
    PW made models 1 through 5 in 1925 so obviously, sometime afterwards.

    I do have a repro copy of a 1929 Edw. K. Tryon sporting goods catalogue(cat #94/Vol.3) and that one shows Models 8, 9 , 10 & 12 in it. Now it could have meant current, for that year, offerings from PW or it may be leftover models from the year before. Who really knows but I'm inclined to believe that your stove was still being made in 1929. But no one still knows the first year your model came out either, at least I don't.

    I have yet to come across any adverts or something from the years 1926-1928, plus a few years during the 30s but something is bound to crop up sooner or later.

    As for the proper color, PW painted their stoves black until 1921. 1922-1926, at least, they were painted a shade of brown, called "rich mahogany brown". Sometime around 1927 or 28(I'm guessing), they started painting them a drab green or olive color. Shades vary. That stayed that way, with the exception of my Model 405, it being black, until WWII.

    Postwar stoves such as the 4500 & 4800 series of stoves were a lighter green. Some appear to be a shade of forest green while others, like my 4522, is closer to the Coleman green of their later stoves.

    Joe
     
  14. Wim

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    Hi Joe, thanks a lot for your very informative reply! The original colour of my N°8 is a sort of olive drab, so this narrows the date of production down to end 1920's I guess. That's fine for me! :content: Now, I have to find a car that goes with it... :whistle: ;) .
    I was thinking of repainting it with Hammerite "Bordeau Red" which is more darkish brown than red really. Would that be ok or rather be sacrilage? :? Hammerite doesn't have an olive drab colour, and I like its anti-rusting ability.
    Thanks again Joe,

    all the best,

    Wim
     
  15. coleman413c

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    Wim:

    It is your stove to do as you like. If you want to restore it to originality, then get the olive drab custom matched and restore it as it came from the factory.

    If you want the stove to be not only a user, with rust resistant properties and you want it to match your future camping vehicle, go for it. That's great too.

    For myself and only for myself, I prefer as close to originality as possible, when restoring. But I also admit that when doing so, I have a nasty habit of overdoing it(buffed out legs rather than painting them, brassworks too shiny, etc).

    Some purists might object, others will like what you do. Just do it.

    Joe