Primus 100/4128

Discussion in 'Primus No:100' started by brassnipplekey, Apr 16, 2009.

  1. brassnipplekey

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    Date unknown .. But similar to Georges 100's 1961 ,1962 .
    The 4128 designation is for the roarer burner .. although in the plastic bag is a lipstick burner and components .
    Noting the travel cap which doubles as pump knob .
    Very light engraving on the tank ... but sharp & uniform .
    1239884852-PICT3580.JPG 1239884864-PICT3581.JPG 1239884886-PICT3582.JPG 1239884901-PICT3584.JPG 1239884917-PICT3585.JPG 1239884937-PICT3586.JPG 1239884952-PICT3587.JPG 1239884965-PICT3588.JPG 1239884977-PICT3590.JPG 1239885012-PICT3591.JPG 1239885026-PICT3592.JPG 1239885039-PICT3594.JPG 1239885053-PICT3596.JPG 1239885076-PICT3602.JPG
    One of my favourite Discus stoves :)

    Nick
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2015
  2. barrabruce

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    Very nice Nick
    You owe me a new keyboard for the drool has made it go all funny
     
  3. Bom Bom Bom Bom

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    Hi Nick,

    Very tidy example. I guess the lipstick and bits were added sometime after purchase. Can't really see from the pictures but is the burner bell and plate also included or just the lipstick, spirit cup and filter? Some useful spares if nothing else!
     
  4. brassnipplekey

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    Hi Graham .
    In the bag are :- lipstick , burner bell , spirit cup , gauze , silent cap and cast roarer plate .
    The lipstick burner in either silent or roarer mode is not as powerful as the 4128/4138 multi tube burners .
    I like my discuses :)

    Nick
     
  5. Bom Bom Bom Bom

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    Great score on the silent cap!

    I also share your like of discus type stoves. I have several 100s, mostly the lipstick jobbies, including a couple of early versions ("A" and a "B" date codes). The 1911 verson comes in a Compact No. 3 outfit. Must move this up the fettling list but I keep putting it off as I find the tins a pain to do as I'm crap at spray painting and always end up disappointed with the results.
     
  6. BernieDawg Banned

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    Very nice outfit Nick. And with a choice of burners, too! :clap:

    I find the use of the pump knob for the reserve cap especially nice. It looks so elegant when in it's reserve cap mode.

    Cheers,
    Gary
     
  7. Ian

    Ian Subscriber

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    Sweet!
     
  8. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi Nick, a really nice presentation and photos of a great stove outfit.
    These "Dicus" stoves are something special aren't they?

    Best Regards,
    George.
     
  9. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    Hi Nick

    Not only a very attractive stove but historically a very important stove.

    The traditional 100 stove set up only produces half of the heat of a conventional roarer burner whether it is a 1 pint or 2 pint burner. Effectively a 100 gave you the performance of a 96 with the bulk of 2 pint stove. It survived in spite of its performance rather than because of it. The reason is that a 100 has a jet size of 0.23 mm whereas the conventional burner has a jet size of 0.32 mm. The heat output is governed by how much fuel you can burn and that is governed by the size of hole that the fuel has to pass through. The bigger jet has an area almost twice the area of the small jet so only produced half of the heat. It is slightly more complicated as than that as friction around the perimeter of the jet also affects the fuel flow but in simple terms that is the reason for the reduced performance.

    The number on the box is Primus's part number for the box.

    If the stove was assembled by Bahco it should have a date code either on the rising tube or on a foot. If there is no date code it is more probable that the stove was assembled by Optimus and put out with Bahco labels on it. There definitely were some Optimus assembled Bahco stoves.

    Does the Bahco name appear on the tank? Your photo cuts off short of that printing.

    What markings are there on your vapourising tube, burner head, burner plate and silent damper?

    I am not asking out of idle curiosity I have a post waiting to be put on about PTC Primus 100s and your answers affect what I say

    Regards Bryan
     
  10. Spiritburner

    Spiritburner Admin Subscriber

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    I can see BAHCO on the 6th image.
     
  11. brassnipplekey

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    Hi Bryan , I've looked over the stove again and cant find any date markings .. the roarer riser (4128) is marked simply PRIMUS within 2 narrow bands of machining serrations .
    The lipstick burner vapourising tube (1003 burner assembly) is marked SWEDEN on one of the brass hex. flats ... The cast top plate is indent cast Made In Sweden ..poor quality casting .
    Ermmmmm ... I've 1 or 2 other 1litre 'Discus' stoves :-) & follow (& contribute where possible)all historical perspectives .
    Thank you Bryan for sharing your, much appreciated, research .
    Bloody stoves ... B'stard Interwebby poter things ..
    Who'd give 'em house room ?? :-)

    Nick
     
  12. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    Hi Nick

    I wholeheartedly agree with your last two sentences and burst out laughing when I saw them.

    Remember that I am expressing an opinion as there is not conclusive evidence to fully support my statement, in fact the evidence is partly contradictory.

    I think that you have got a Bahco made tank that was finished off by Optimus and was sold by the Primus Trading Company and that some of the parts were made by Optimus.

    I was hoping to clearly establish that the 100/4128 was produced by Bahco prior to the PTC but that is not possible.

    The top of your tank is definitely made by Bahco no later than 1962. Providing that the bottom does not state MADE IN SWEDEN the tank bottom and top were joined together by Bahco. The roarer burner was definitely made by Bahco no later than 1962 but those markings is not proof of who assembled the stove or who fitted the feet to the tank.

    Bahco generally marked their fittings PRIMUS SWEDEN. When Optimus started making Primus brand stoves they marked their burners, flame rings and silent outer caps OPTIMUS PRIMUS so they could be used on both brands of stoves. The 100/4128 and 100/4138 only seem to appear in the Primus brand. I have never seen an Optimus brand one. There was no need to include Optimus in the marking if an Optimus model was not going to be produced. Your tank lid is marked PRIMUS PRIMUS and your rising tube is marked PRIMUS and as far as I know Bahco never used that simplified marking on those fittings. That does not say that they never did, just that I have never seen them.

    SEE LATER CORRECTION ABOUT THE ABOVE PARAGRAPH

    Your conventional 100 burner parts are not correctly marked for parts made by Bahco. The vapourising tube should be marked PRIMUS SWEDEN. Your burner plate should be marked PRIMUS SWEDEN with a rising sun above it. The burner plate with the marking MADE IN SWEDEN was made by Optimus. They used that marking so that it could be used for the two brands without it being obvious that Optimus made it. You may notice that the policy on the marking of that part and the burner parts differ. Solely marking PRIMUS on the vapourising tube supports the view that Optimus only intended to make Primus versions of the 100 variants. Even though Optimus may not have intended to make an Optimus 100 they were selling parts for both stoves and at that time spare parts were being sold with Primus part numbers and Optimus part numbers. The numbers only became unified in the 1970s

    There does not appear to be any way of knowing whether the conventional 100 parts came with the stove or whether they were a later addition unless anyone has any instructions that mention them

    Now we come to a controversial subject. It is difficult to tell from photos but I think that your stove is fitted with Optimus legs. There is a 15º difference in angle but they do not look to be Primus legs. If you go to this legs topic you may be able to confirm this

    I have not seen that pump knob/reserve lid on earlier or later 100 stoves

    The box has been altered by an ink stamp to create the new model number. Unfortunately this could have been done by Bahco rather than Optimus

    There are a lot of small items that are pointing me to the opinion that Optimus rather than Primus assembled and sold the stove through the PTC even though the box is marked Bahco

    Regards Bryan
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2015
  13. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    Hi Nick

    From your comments about the stove performance it appears that the nipple in your roarer burner is a 0.32 mm nipple.

    Could you please check and confirm its size?

    Regards Bryan
     
  14. brassnipplekey

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    0.32 mm it is .
    The lipstick burner was not part of the original stove package ... I've several new in bag 100 lipstick burner assemblies distributed amongst the stoves that they fit. :oops: .. sorry for the confusion I created .
    Further inspection shows numerical markings on the burner hex. of 466 & 26 on opposite flats .
    NO markings on the tank base & Bahco engraved on the top of the tank .
    The legs are Primus legs...measured on screen against your simple/elegant template .
    If you need any further .... ask , no problems .

    Nick
     
  15. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    Hi Nick

    The question about the jet size may have sounded strange but your tank is a conventional 100 tank so there is no problem with it being designated as a 100 stove irrespective of whether it is fitted with a conventional or vapourising tube burner. Later 100/4128s (4138s) used a rebadged Optimus 45/48 tank with the conventional burner fittings on them.

    The 2 pint burner on your stove is a standard nippled Bahco burner presumably having been taken straight off the shelf. Earlier ones sold by Bahco had 0.23 mm nipples fitted

    Later PTC Primus 100s with the 45 or 48 tanks would have been better numbered as 51s or 54s which were the nearest equivalent Primus models.

    The justification for using the 100 designation seems to have been the downgrading of the burner performance. It appears that Optimus did this rather than Bahco.

    I cannot understand why anyone would half the heat output of a burner simply to use the 100 model number.

    This topic relates to later 100s PTC 100s

    Thanks for the information

    Regards Bryan
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2015
  16. kaw550red

    kaw550red RIP

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    CORRECTION

    My comments about the markings on the fittings are WRONG. If you look at this stove 1961 100/4043 you will see that Bahco were making a 100 with these fittings on them in 1961. It appears that they broke their convention of marking parts PRIMUS SWEDEN at that time.

    However in the case of this stove the model number on the box does not coincide with the model number used by Primus but coincides with the model used by Optimus so it is probable that this stove was sold by the PTC

    Regards Bryan
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2015