Primus 41 - ?

Discussion in 'Primus No:41' started by BernieDawg, Apr 4, 2010.

  1. BernieDawg Banned

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    This is very unfortunately not my stove. However, I was tasked with it's operational restoration and thought to take some photos before it is returned to it's owner. (sigh) :( :lol:

    Also, I am unable to date this stove from the tank stamping. While there is the familiar circle stamped on the end of the tank, there is no letter(s), only the numeral 5 toward the bottom of the inside of the circle. Puzzling. :-k

    Based on my following thoughts concerning the fitted burner (if original), I'd guess 1947-1955 as a possible birthdate. Opinions welcome!

    This particular 41 is fitted with what I believe to be Primus' #4155 silent burner. The Primus catalog from 1952 here at CCS says the 41SP was fitted with a #4151 burner and I am not sure what the difference would be. I do know that the #4155 burner had it's spindle on the right hand side of the jet aperture just like the burner on this stove (I own two #4155's). This means that the cleaning needle extends through the jet orifice when the valve is fully closed rather than fully open as with Primus' later #4190 regulated silent burner which appears in the 1955 catalog. I cannot discern the difference between this stove's burner and my pair of #4155's. The spindle knob matches my pair as well.

    This burner is well used and shows easily visible signs of deterioration around the burner skirt holes. It was fitted with an alcohol jet and needle when I received it, which is the major reason why it was performing poorly. I exchanged those for a new kero jet and cleaning needle after functionally modifying the modern needle to more resemble the #4155 style cleaning needle. All new pips, gaskets spindle packing, etc, brought this old gent up to functional (if not appearance) snuff.

    Enjoy!

    1270416026-IMGP2596.jpg 1270416035-IMGP2597.jpg 1270416042-IMGP2598.jpg 1270416050-IMGP2599.jpg 1270416062-IMGP2600.jpg 1270416089-IMGP2601.jpg 1270416099-IMGP2602.jpg 1270416112-IMGP2603.jpg 1270416119-IMGP2604.jpg 1270416129-IMGP2607.jpg 1270416143-IMGP2608.jpg 1270416157-IMGP2611.jpg 1270416179-IMGP2612.jpg 1270416188-IMGP2613.jpg 1270416203-IMGP2529.jpg 1270416211-IMGP2538.jpg
     
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  2. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark Subscriber

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    Hey, Dawg,

    Happy Easter!! Great work on that 41! I'd love to get a silent one, to go with my roarer version, one of these days. I don't have a clue on the dating, but I'm sure it's owner will be well pleased with your fettle of it! Thanks for sharing your work with us. Once again, a great job. Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  3. mbechtel

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    Hi Gary, that 41 looks to be identical to mine...even the burner. Mine has the same "cleaning needle up through the jet when closed" arrangement. Even the krinkle paint is the same. Nice fettle!
     
  4. lanevitt

    lanevitt Subscriber

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    Is there no date code beneath the pump assembly on the tank :-k

    can it beat my old 1944 Primus 41, now in the hands of DDAY.
     
  5. BernieDawg Banned

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    Thanks guys and Happy Easter to you, too, Doc!

    Date code, Andrew? Yes, it's there, but perhaps not stamped hard enough for the letter/letters to show? Your thoughts on this picture of it?
    1270423379-IMGP2689.jpg

    Best,
    Gary
     
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  6. BernieDawg Banned

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    Im sorry. I'm sort of hogging my thread. :oops: I found another picture I thought looked good of the burner. Cropped a little, here 'tis:
    1270439182-IMGP2553_2.jpg
     
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  7. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi Gary, now that you have worked on a Primus No.41 how do you rate it against, say an Optimus 111T?

    Best Regards
    George.
     
  8. gotnoeyebrows Banned

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    that is such a superb design, i like that more than the radius with the telescopic pot rests. perhaps these stoves are rare because they cost too much when new - over engineered? a lot of nifty design features there but it must have cost a bit to make
    that case looks about the same size as an irish army mess tin and those are stainless steel
     
  9. Dutchmike

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    Hello Gary,

    Here's some pics of that rather unknown 4151 burner, designed to burn alcohol exclusively.

    1270464162-Primus_41_alcoburner.jpg

    1270464302-Primus_41SP_alcoburner.dish.jpg

    I bought it from a swedish auction site, as I fancied the articulated rod to replace the straight control rod on my 41, which by the way is very similar as your project 41 there.

    What I find noticable is that 'yours' like mine seems to have the hole, punched out of the sidescreen in order to engage it with the potcarrier, misplaced a little.
    As a result the lid is forced out of plumb and the assembly tends to lean into the grid.

    1270464670-Primus_41_foldout_rear.jpg

    Nickled, this tank has the 1953 designation of AS 5.
    I believe in 1954 Primus introduced the red knobs, dropping the expensive - and superfluous - way of attachment of thread and ferrule of the control rod at about the same time.

    1270464942-Primus_41SP_alcoburner.rod.jpg

    Back to the 4151 burner, the obvious insulated (by good old-fashioned asbestos) attachment of the startertube might have something to do with a desired maximum temperature of that tube, something not found on the more common clip-ons of some paraffin-fuelled models.

    1270465279-Primus_41SP_alcoburner.lighter.jpg

    This SP-burner I bought without the caps, has never been fired and as such seem to fit in with the unknown story of the Primus SP(irit ?)41 that seem to excist mainly on paper.

    Regards, Mike
     
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  10. BernieDawg Banned

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    Hi George and Mike

    George, my thoughts on the stove further down.

    Mike, I don't know. I took the Primus 41SP designation from this catalog page in the 1952 catalog here at CCS and cannot find any hint that the "SP" reference is to a spirit burner. I'm not saying you are incorrect, I'm just saying I don't know. ;)

    https://classiccampstoves.com/fusion/gallery/15/1245800926-013.jpg

    Here's another thought. This 41 I've illustrated has a threaded mount for it's burner. Thus, I could install the spirit burner below if I chose to turn it into a spirit stove. (The dimensions are such that it looks as if it would fit perfectly.) It may look similar to your "#4151", don't you agree? I wonder what burner this one is?

    1270509053-IMGP2697.jpg 1270509061-IMGP2699.jpg

    George, I really like the 111T. It's a nice stove. I really like the 41(maybe SP?), too. I like the 41's design, the windshield, the potrest, and especially the larger and attractively proportioned fuel tank.

    But, I'm not a big fan of the #4155 burners with their odd control/needle. The spindle ends in a rounded lump rather than a taper as later burners such as those in the 111T. In practice this means that the simmer range is touchy and fluctuates oddly. With the burner that is mounted in this 41, as I open the valve the flame increases for a bit, then decreases, then increases rather suddenly to full throttle as the needle moves out of the way. It just doesn't have smooth operation in my experience. I have the same results with the two burners I own as well. Setting the cleaning needle is also problematic as Primus made a "special tool" for that operation which, a. I do not have, and b. I cannot fabricate from the poor pictures of it in the catalog.

    Now, if this were my stove and I were considering using it in the field, I think I would replace the burner with a Svea 1915. A quick comparison indicates it's the correct height and should thread into the base ok. The control spindle on the 41 may or may not work with it, but it would be a simple matter to fab one that would. Yes, it wouldn't be "original", but I think the Svea 1915 would make it a really cracking kero stove.

    Anyway, that's my two cents on those two subjects and worth just what you paid. :D

    Best,
    Gary
     
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  11. dday

    dday Subscriber

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    Hi Gary,
    Very nice fettle on that great 41 silent. The flame looks phenomenal. I really like your comments about modifying a 1915 burner on it. If a person were to use it regularly, a 1915 could be used and then down the road the original could be put back in place to maintain its collectibility. Like you, I have a few 1915 burners on a few Svea's and my Homestrand Mariner and I think they are one of the smoothest burners around :) . I have needed to thank you and Doc for letting the secret out about those great Hometsrands with Svea burners. Take care and have a good evening.
    Dan
     
  12. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi Gary, I think the Sp designation on the Pr.41 and other Primus models might refer to "Sport" and was given to cased models of the respective stoves.
    I will need to check later.
    Thanks for you "road test" report on the 41.

    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
  13. Dutchmike

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    Hello Gary and George,

    I understand the latter's suggestion that SP could stand for Sport, and as such it could be named (by Con) inadvertedly.
    But I have a model 210 in the same green crackle-paint case as the 41, of the same year, so with the typical blacke enameled in-tray and minuus the 4 lugs.
    Guess I should take and pose some pics, eh?

    I believe Ross published a 'Bruksanvisning för Primus Sportkök (!) No. 341 Sp (three.four.one Sp)
    för rödsprit - or spirit - with that typical alcohol burner identical to my specimen.

    And in fact, nearly identical to your burner, Gary! Safe for the different attachment of the starter tube methinks they are the same.
    Where did you find that?

    Boy, are we collectors not good in formulating alkinds of questions, some of them likely never to be answered conclusively?

    Kind regards to you both,
    Mike
     
  14. Spiritburner

    Spiritburner Admin SotM Winner Subscriber

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    The SP is for Sport. On some SP variants of the 96SP & 210SP there's a decal in the lid of the tin that states 'Sport'

    Although referred to as Deluxe Touring Outfits on this page you will notice the SP suffix in the model table & SPORT on the lid decal in the illustration;

    1246697972-027.jpg
     
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  15. brassnipplekey

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    plaksCHROM = :-).. Discus.MMMMM
    Nick
     
  16. brassnipplekey

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    plaksCHROM = :-).. Discus.MMMMM 1 off .
    Its late ... I'm Tired .. But I can Dream.
    Unless economic/supply dictates. I.E It's really cheap .. I cant think of a reason to burn alcohol under 'unreasonable'pressure .
    Gotta love the Classic Camp Stoves
    Keeps you 'normal' at 0300.
    Upside Downey Needles ... Projecting when OFF..
    In my experience are a PITA ... Add ALCOHOL .. Add pressure .... & A Yo Ho Gung Ho Operator ..
    Got Meself burnt on a woof from a Trangia stove.. No pressure .
    At 0317 .. Am I a competent pressure alcohol stove operator ?
    Give a man a pump .. & && He'll use it.
    Low pressure for alcohol .. Cider (NOT my normal tipple ) was/is 6% or so + ++
    Slow down ... YMMV.
    Light a candle .. again YMMV

    Nick
     
  17. kablamachunk

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    all u guys are just downright wizards!!!...k
     
  18. BernieDawg Banned

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    Hi Mike
    The spirit burner came on a Optimus 45 fitted with a long riser. The stove was further fitted in a Sea Swing. The whole package came from the Puget Sound area (Seattle, Washington). I'm afraid I've forgotten the town.

    Best,
    Gary
     
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  19. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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  20. bajabum

    bajabum R.I.P.

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    I have only gone one bout with hard cider, and It won... :oops:
    Goes down easy, comes up ...hard... :-&