Problems preheating new kerosene burner

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by Hans Jakob, May 24, 2016.

  1. Hans Jakob

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    Dear all,

    We used to have a Taylor cooker with the swiss Bertschi burners. Developed a leak and decided repair best left for long winter nights - spare parts for these burners not easy to get hold of and want to re-build to standard burners. We installed a 2nd hand Optimus 155 for this summers' sail north. The burners seemed a bight dodgy, and being of unknown age I decided to change both burners to the new Hanse burners ( had these onboard from fettling with the old Taylor - long story).

    Changing burners was straight forward, but I cannot seem to preheat them properly. We have always got away with using 10 mls of methylated spirits for preheating, without the white "sponge" that comes with the new burners. I have now tried up to 30 mls of methylated spirits for preheating, the burners just doesn't seem to get hot enough and flares up. I have tried both with and without the white sponge.

    I have not tried with a torch. We got one many years for this purpose, we didn't like it. Noisy and then there's the gas issue. But it is at home in the basement somewhere. Seem to remember we used it when the only replacement burners were the two- legged variety that were a hassle to pre-heat.

    I will now replace burners again and put in the old ones. But does anybody have any suggestions why I cannot get the new Hanse burners to work? They seem to get raving reviews from everyone. Our summers sail will take us north to Spitsbergen. We can cook on our Refleks heater, but it is cumbersome and we do not have it lit when offshore. So any suggestions are be greatly appreciated!
     
  2. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    @Hans Jakob I've not used them, but I'm aware Base Camp in the UK sell them.

    image.jpeg


    It shouldn't be necessary, but does pre-heating twice (or more) with alcohol get them to vapourise properly?

    John
     
  3. Hans Jakob

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    Have tried this - but waited a while as concerned of flare- ups. I see I have my volumes wrong: I usually use 20 mls of mthylated spirits ( use a medical syringe). Seems 3 x volume doesn't make any difference with new burners... Will try torch when get hold of it..
     
  4. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    What I meant was to prime and refill with alcohol immediately after the first priming flames had extinguished, then lighting the second charge of priming alcohol without delay. If you "waited a while" between attempts at priming there'd have been some, but not as much benefit as a prompt re-prime.

    Did lighting instructions come with the burner? I know you're an experienced user of the stove but I've been caught out by some detail difference - such as the pricker/regulator control operating the opposite way to an Optimus regulated burner's 'clockwise to close, anti-clockwise to operate the pricker'.
     
  5. Hans Jakob

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    Will try pre-heating 2 x as you suggest, keeping head and fingers well away when refilling 2nd time :-). Going to offshore island now, uncertain about internet cover so may not be online tonight. Thanks for good suggestions so far!
     
  6. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi @Hans Jakob . These burners represent a fair mass of brass to heat up to kerosene vaporisation temperature.
    John Presscall has given good advice re. Double prime in quick succession. However you might also reconsider the use of priming wicks.
    I find these give a more efficient and effective burn of the priming methylated spirits. Too often with an open-pool of meths, the liquid boils and tends to "spit".
    With a wick the flame front is above the liquid level and the burn is longer and more efficient. In addition the wick tends to keep the flames from the burning meths tight to the burner stem and head.

    You are obviously an experienced liquid stove user, so I will assume that you are using de-natured ethanol and not methanol or diluted alcohol?

    Here is something I made earlier:

    https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/making-up-some-spirit-cup-wicks.31218/#post-316773

    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
  7. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    @kerophile Hi George. Hans mentioned the use of 'white sponge' that came with the burners which I took to mean priming wicks, which he says he's tried. You're right about the sheer mass of metal in those Hanse burners. Most likely that makes them that bit more demanding to prime. I wonder if the approved primer cups for use with them are of larger capacity to compensate?

    John
     
  8. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi John, you will notice that I did say " reconsider the use of priming wicks" since I worry that he might have dismissed them too readily.

    I am convinced that wicks are always better than open-pool priming.

    The check list for priming should always be:

    Correct priming fuel?
    Correct amount of the above?
    Shielding from the wind ?
    No delay in feeding fuel to the burner after end of primer burn.
    Open control valve slowly to allow time for further temperature rise ( 3-5 mins) of the burner before increasing power.

    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
  9. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    @kerophile Ah yes, George, so you did. Apologies.
     
  10. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr Subscriber

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    Be certain the preheat flame is out before adding more spirits.

    Ken in NC
     
  11. itchy

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    That burner does look massive. But is it really possible you are priming with as much as 60 ml (3x20)? The priming cup would be huge -- but you might be able to cook most of a meal on the priming flame alone.
     
  12. JonD

    JonD United Kingdom Subscriber

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    We do know that the new burners are fitted with the correct jet size for Kero?
    Or do we...?
     
  13. Wim

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    @JonD has a point there, if the jet is an alcohol one the burner will never work on kero! Good thinking Jon!
     
  14. hikerduane

    hikerduane Subscriber

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    I was also thinking that maybe they need a bit of brass screen stuffed up in the bottom if not already there. ?
    Duane
     
  15. Wim

    Wim Subscriber

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    Well, one thing is for sure, the burner works with a lovely bleu flame despite it not even being connected with a stove! :shock::roll::lol::D/[-X:whistle::clap:](*,)
     
  16. Hans Jakob

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    Definetely kerosene jet. And there is a brass mesh in base of the new type burners. The Optimus 155 boat stove does not have a priming cup as such - basically a stainless steel basin that is integral part of the cooker body. Will probably hold 3 - 4 dls of whatever you put into it.

    From previous experience with the two - stand burners Taylor used for a while I am afraid the brass body of the new burners are too big for the preheating with methylated spirits I am used to. Have now refitted one of old burners so can cook while messing about with the new burner. Will probably end up pre heating with torch. But thanks for your input
     
  17. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi, i still think glass wick rope, stiffened with a wire though the core, and wrapped around the riser of the burners would help with the pre-heat.

    Here is an old reference to the use of a small gas-cartridge blow lamp to pre-heat primus burners:

    https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/the-voyage-of-the-aegre.5877/

    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
  18. itchy

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    Do these burners have a windshield that keeps the priming flame close to the burner?
     
  19. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi, as @Hans Jakob said he is using these new burners in an Optimus 155 stove/cooker. Some versions of these stoves are fitted with rapid pre-heaters, or built-in blowtorches fitted to each burner.
    The one Hans is using is the version with large shallow trays rather than conventional spirit-cups.

    https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/optimus-no-155-cooker.4460/

    These stoves are intended for indoors use so are not fitted with windshields.

    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
  20. Hans Jakob

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    Thank you kerophile for the link to the voyage of the Aegre! When they got it to work I guess so should we :-)