Propane with a Lindal valve?

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by snwcmpr, Aug 3, 2020.

  1. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr Subscriber

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  2. ArchMc

    ArchMc Subscriber

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    No experience with it.

    Interesting. I just learned propane is not a greenhouse gas (at least pre-combustion). It seems an odd choice to use a flammable gas as a propellant for air soft guns, though. ("What could possibly go wrong?")

    I take it you're mostly interested in finding a Lindal valve that's rated for propane?

    ....Arch
     
  3. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr Subscriber

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    I read somewhere else about a guy using these as a replacement for butane canisters. It just makes me curious.

    I do not recall, and do not find any search results, of anyone using these with a stove. (Other than this one guy) I do not like being on the leading end of the use of flammable gases. I get nervous.

    It does surprise me that propane is the propellant for those air soft guns.
    I picture smoking and shooting.
     
  4. geeves

    geeves New Zealand Subscriber

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    Butane and propane replaced freons not so much for greenhouse gas but for ozone depletion which is an equally bad thing. Butane and propane are heavy gasses so despite having the potential to be greenhouse gasses they dont reach the places where they can have an effect. Lindal valves have been around a long time before we started using them and they are capable of far higher pressures than we would ever use even in mistreatment.
     
  5. SveaSizzler

    SveaSizzler United States Subscriber

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    I tried running a LanShan [ZYH-001] remote burner on propane in a green Coleman 1 lb bottle thru an adapter that mated the green LPG bottle to a Lindal valve. It worked a little at first, then when I turned up the valve it jammed up. No flame control. Then it stopped. The LanShan wouldn't work even on an MSR butane can anymore.
    At less than $20 for a new LanShan type, it was cheaper to replace it than fettle it with unobtainable parts.
    I even tried the Kovea LPG/EN417 adapter, with a fiddly set screw adjustor -- to no avail.
    Would be nice to run little gassies on Coleman green. Might last all summer.
    I suspect the lack of a high pressure regulator is the issue?
    My point being, what sort of pressures is a cartridge for a projectile propellant going to be loaded at?
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2020
  6. Marc

    Marc Subscriber

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    Here's a temperature/pressure chart for pure butane, propane, and a few mixes. Quite the difference between the two. I'd expect propane refrigerant and propane fuel to be the same thing.

    1299705271_38941.jpg
     
  7. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr Subscriber

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    Error.

    After a little more research I found a different product. I had the mfgr right, EnviroSafe, but the item wrong. It was listed in the "TOOLS" section, and I did not find it the first few times there.
    Boss Torch Gas Refill Can
    Ken
     
  8. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr Subscriber

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    Boss Torch Gas Refill Can
    SDS Ingredients:
    CAS#% ChemicalName
    138-86-3.02% TipCleaner
    68476-85-7 99.7% Petroleum gases, liquefied
    75-08-1.28% EthylMercaptin

    "68476-85-7"
    Synonyms & Trade Names
    Bottled gas, Compressed petroleum gas, Liquefied hydrocarbon gas, Liquefied petroleum gas [Note: A fuel mixture of propane, propylene, butanes, and butylenes.]

    I asked them what the percentage of propane is for the Boss Torch refill. It does NOT say 100% in the SDS. It says propane blend on the can.
    The item I linked in my first post does say 100% propane in the SDS.
     
  9. Marc

    Marc Subscriber

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    Here's what the CAS number for the "tip cleaner" leads to. Common solvent used in cleaner.

    The Good Scents Company - Aromatic/Hydrocarbon/Inorganic Ingredients Catalog information

    CAS number for the petroleum gas goes here:

    ChemIDplus - 68476-85-7 - Liquefied petroleum gas - Searchable synonyms, formulas, resource links, and other chemical information.

    Shows carbon chains C3-C7 which could be propane or butane, and a boiling range from -40 to 176F, which points towards propane.

    Ethyl Mercaptin is of course the smelly stuff we all know and love.

    I guess it could be 100% propane fuel, while the "tip cleaner" and smelly stuff makes it a blend?
     
  10. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr Subscriber

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    Thank you. So worth a chance?
    At least works as a torch.

    Ken
     
  11. Marc

    Marc Subscriber

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    If I needed something like that, I'd absolutely give it a shot. Stick it in the freezer and see how it behaves.

    What's your end goal? Gassie gold weather usage? I'd be more inclined to get the Kovea propane adapter and a Kovea stove that's advertised to handle that.

    Been looking for one of the old Bernzomatic 5.5oz Mapp gas cylinders, they were small, aluminum, and used a standard 1" propane threads, although interrupted thread. Been discontinued for awhile, as they cost twice what a normal Mapp gas cylinder cost and only contained 1/3rd the fuel. I actually found someone who had one, and they were able to test the propane adapter and a stove, and it worked! They weren't willing to sell it the cylinder though, so I've been looking for my own ever since.

    If anyone has one they'd be willing to part with, please get in touch.
     
  12. Tobias

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    Greengas for airssoft contains silicon oil for lubricating.
     
  13. snwcmpr

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    Yeah. I saw that. Thanks.
     
  14. Tobias

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    I don't know if silicon oil can damage a stove.
    Another way to use propane:

    Kovea adapter for M1003

     
  15. ArchMc

    ArchMc Subscriber

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    Ethyl Mercaptin is the stink.
    I knew folks in college who used to play nasty tricks on people with esters and mercaptins synthesized in organic chemistry lab. If I recall, methyl mercaptin is skunk smell. Ethyl mercaptin is, I guess, just the usual "gas" smell.

    ....Arch
     
  16. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr Subscriber

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    To clarify.
    I know we can use the standard propane tank. There are conversion connections to use them. There are many threads about that. This lindal valve propane tank is new to me, and I see no posts previously about it.
    My post here is to determine whether or not we can use these containers for stoves.

    I rely on the wisdom of those smarter than me, so I do not help enforce the Darwin laws of human behavior. But, I am beyond the age of any gene management.

    Thanks
    Ken
     
  17. Tobias

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    Found in an older thread:

    Trangia/Primus Gas Burner?
     
  18. snwcmpr

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  19. Reflector

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    Interesting discovery. Apparently a while back there was some talk on some backpacking forums of the holy grail of a lightweight propane canister with a lindal valve and at one point Bernzomatic had a propane torch that ran off a canister of a similar format.

    In my personal experience I've run a Whisperlite Universal on propane using one of those Kovea adapters with the side screw along with the plain aluminum ones that don't have the pressure restriction mechanism in them and it did fine. It did fine inverted when the stove was warmed up but the biggest thing was the flames were a little more intense than when running it on straight butane or isobutane mixes if the valve was opened up all the way.

    If I get a chance to get a can of this stuff, I'll see if I can some of the liquid to spray out in a controlled manner onto a piece of paper to see if there's actually silicon oil in noticeable amounts. Silicon oil is supposed to be nonflammable so I have to wonder where it goes if there's a lot of it. It definitely is an interesting find purely because it is a small little container of propane that for the experiment and calculated risk taking types use to reload propane from the 1lbs green bottles minus the heavy mass of the container for the types who want to go down that route of madness (or load it with a little butane to lower the overall pressure but otherwise have it be like a 30/70 butane/propane mix)

    MSDS does say no oil which makes me wonder...
     
  20. Yun¹²⁴ Korea, Republic of

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    Hello, Tobias,
    I don't think the silicon oil/lubricant will damage any part of stoves we have, it's really neutral type of lub. and very stable for.
    However somebody uses like 3 in 1 oil which is not very suitable for our purpose, ie. oiling for the plunger cups, neoprenes, leather parts, steel wire throughed-in the Generator like MSR Whisperlite serie, not suitable for that purpose, but no critical harm. but I don't use it.

    Regarding the Adapter by Kovea, I can suggest another Korean manufactured part by the brand G-Works which is already promoted by Amazon.com, G-works' products are all made in Korea and top-tier quality in this field that I'm really sure.

    Of course Kovea, it's pretty well but "maybe" made in China even Kovea is the Korean company, and not the super quality that adapter has.

    FYI, you can find so many cheap adapters, wires with the knitted-steelwires for liquid gas canisters, and so on, from Aliexpress or wherever you do, but please Do Not trust any quality of them. for example Campingmoon - looks good, but i don't think it's really well designed for inside parts. No-branded chinese adapters, wires - please do not use them if you're considering about "Safety" all of them are tons of shit.

    I don't have any relationship with the G-Works, if this is considered as the advertisement, no problem to be removed my comments by the admin.
    Yun