Question for those who own/regularly use their British Army No. 12

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by Marc, Jul 23, 2018.

  1. Marc

    Marc Subscriber

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    Background, skip to last paragraph if so inclined: Most of the appeal of this stove for me is in it's ability to burn diesel fuel. My understanding of the fuels involved is that number 2 diesel, what is regularly called "diesel" here in the states, has a significant amount of un-vaporizable chemicals in it. Again, by my understanding, this will unavoidably lead to a carboned up burner eventually, regardless of how much heat is poured into vaporizing the fuel before it's pushed through the jet and out to the flame. Kerosene/white gas have some un-vaporizable components as well, but much less, and thus will take much longer to clog up a burner/generator. I've also read that "diesel fuel" in military use(USA and NATO allies, including the Brits), what's actually meant is JP-8, which is essentially Jet A, which is.............kerosene. This gives me concern that these are actually kerosene stoves.

    I see lots of references to people who own and regularly use their No. 12, almost all say they use kerosene in their stove. I can understand why, kerosene being regularly kept on hand by most of us and diesel not, but my main goal would be straight pump diesel use. I have plenty of kerosene stoves already, my main adventuring vehicle is diesel, and I do keep pump diesel on hand in cans.

    Finally, the question: Does anyone have long term experience burning regular pump diesel in their No. 12? If so, would you please share your experiences?

    Thanks.
     
  2. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    CCS and Classic Pressure Lamps member @K180 (Nigel) has used pump diesel in his No.12 without ill effects, he’s often said in the past.

    I can’t seem to reach him by the ‘alert’. Nigel, if you’re reading this!??!

    I see that in THIS post Nigel wrote
    John
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
  3. Simes

    Simes Subscriber

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    @Marc I wish I could sadly I (currently) am not a proud owner of a No 12.

    On a general personal view I would not be comfortable using regular pump fuel either diesel or petrol(gas), ainly due to additives for vehicle use. Others probably have very different personal views.

    As a.test I have tried pump diesel in a '00' only really to satisfy my own curiosity that it would work if needed, which it did. I didn't run off and store diesel as a primary fuel for long term stove use.
     
  4. Trojandog

    Trojandog United Kingdom Subscriber

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    But that was the whole point of the No12. With most of the British military vehicle fleet running on diesel, the No12 was brought in so it could be run on the same fuel as the carrying vehicle.
     
  5. Simes

    Simes Subscriber

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    @Trojandog Yes I appreciate that aspect, but if I read previous posters correctly the military 'diesel' is of a rather different spec to the stuff you pour in your own car at the forecourt. With corresponding modifications to the engines themselves if required. An interesting question, I can make some enquiries.

    It was the standard road vehicle diesel additives that seemed to be of most concern regarding possible clogging of burners/generators, in a similar fashion to petrol and the possibility of unknown by products escaping.
     
  6. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr Subscriber

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    @Kl80

    I am not sure of the spelling, but I got a tag to work.
     
  7. Marc

    Marc Subscriber

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    Thanks folks, really appreciate the input! Just a quick drive-by post while on the phone at work, will respond more carefully when I have time.
     
  8. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    There isn’t a lot of tubing to coke up on a No.12 burner in actual fact.

    The upright at the control end of the valve (left) is just a bracing strut. The larger diameter upright (right) is the tubing conveying the vapourised fuel from the annular vapourising chamber above to the valve and jet.

    3306CDB2-7AA7-408F-BCA8-254CE58599AF.jpeg


    There’s no connection (there’s a space) between the jet/pricker rack housing and the fuel inlet boss (bottom)

    06D1621C-AA9C-49D9-BE34-28E2E4141C1D.jpeg


    Instruction panel refers to diesel/avtur. I take that not to mean the same fuel. Avtur to my understanding is the kerosene-like jet fuel and diesel is something else (pump diesel).

    66A5D9B9-C0CB-4483-B6AB-DDF87F90CAA7.jpeg


    Of course, I had to use it once I’d done the photos. An exhilerating experience (raucous even). Fuelled here on kerosene, but I’ll try pump (auto) diesel some time soon.

    0672168D-4E30-48D4-BE65-B7349276FC8E.jpeg

    40C62EA9-719F-448E-80C7-0CBE10E91C03.jpeg

    John
     
  9. Marc

    Marc Subscriber

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    Thank you John, really appreciate your memories on Nigel's fuel use, and in particular your clear photos and explanation of the fuel path. If I'm understanding correctly, the No. 12 burner works pretty much like a normal regulated roarer burner, the main improvement being perhaps increased surface area for vaporization, and there's a hole in the middle for a nipple spanner without universal joints.

    A bacon butty cooked on diesel, far from civilization, makes my mouth water.

    Thanks again, everyone.
     
  10. Trojandog

    Trojandog United Kingdom Subscriber

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    @Simes
    @presscall

    We had diesel Landrovers and 4-tonners. Wherever possible we were to use military POL points but also had Shell agency cards/coupons. There was never any mention of restricting the use of civilian fuel except for cost. I don't know if armoured vehicles ran on different diesel - we need to find a tankie. The only diesel variation I recall was summer/winter diesel.
     
  11. Simes

    Simes Subscriber

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  12. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi @Simes . That link is extremely useful and confirms what I said about the fuel (F65) specified in the instructions for my Dutch Army Heinze/Geniol stove:

    I posted this:

    Your NATO Fuels booklet defines F65 as:

    “ low temperature diesel/kerosene fuel blend.”

    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.