removing "lacquer" from brass tank

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by OMC, Dec 5, 2021.

  1. OMC

    OMC United States Subscriber

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    I use the term lacquer for lack of a better term.
    IMG_0357.JPG
    just a portion of this stove sat in some liquid resulting in clear "lacquer" like, well adhered, very hard coating. It has also damaged the brass beneath it in the process :rage:. This is most evident in next pic
    IMG_0358.JPG
    we also note just a portion was damaged by whatever the liquid was.
    (I posted pics, it is obvious to me when i look at it. Sometimes the subject is less clear to others. That is upside down, years ago it sat right side up in a puddle of "something" that damaged the brass and resulted in clear hard coating on the (darker) portion that sat in the puddle.)
    Oh, the circle in the center, i do not yet know what to make of that, for now it is just odd and a little different. I assure you with magnifier nothing is revealed there either. Although a peculiar different spot, there too some of this hard coating is present.
    "Just leave it" has been one option that I've not completely given up on BUT
    to better identify this Primus stove i need to reveal the stamping on the bottom of the tank.
    I attempted MANY times in various lighting with strong magnifier and i can not recognize a single letter from beneath the hard coating... to decipher what is below i need to at least begin to remove some of...
    whatever this is. Once i remove enough to better ID the stove i think i will leave much of this coating on there (as shown, some of what is beneath it is not pretty).

    all, *particularly US members and @kerophile ,
    help. please.
    btw credit kerophile i have read his Stove restoration. Parts 1 to 4 often and recently.
    elsewhere is mentioned
    "... the well-cured, baked-on Manufacturer's lacquers seem to resist most commercial strippers and some mild abrasion is generally needed to shift them."

    @kerophile, because for me it looks like lacquer i want to try lacquer thinner. -OR- is there a product you would recommend to try 1st? and
    what would you suggest as 1st solution or product to soften, break through, this hard surface. and
    re "... some mild abrasion is generally needed to shift them." any suggestion there?

    *My fellow Americans: is there a specific off the shelf product in the US one might recommend for this 1st step?
    thanks to all
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
  2. OMC

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    all, @igh371 Ian,
    This is a Primus 215, it just occurred to me the bottom appears to have machining evidence that it was spun brass? Do i have that guessed correctly? If yes, is that a dating clue?
    I recall spun evidence on very early examples but not at all clear how long it might have continued on the 215 (which has a bottom portion that is used only on 215 & 216 iirc). The tank and the bottom piece differs from the soon after "discus" tank.
    cc @Christer Carlsson
     
  3. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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  4. Radler

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    Try rubbing with a rag, soaked with acetone. Acetone (or a nail-polish remover containing acetone) can solve the cellulose lacquer. Since it takes some time and acetone is very volatile, I use a trick to prevent premature vaporizing:

    I soak some kitchen paper with nail-polish remover, place it on the brass and cover it with cling wrap (saran wrap). After five minutes the lacquer comes off with some rubbing. Be careful, acetone vapours are explosive!
    Cellulose solved in acetone was a classic lacquer for keeping brass shiny.

    Radler
     
  5. Twoberth

    Twoberth United Kingdom Subscriber

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    @Radler Thanks for the tip of using clingfilm to delay evaporation.
     
  6. OMC

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    started w/most mild method: repeated very hot water, worth the effort, did almost nothing for whatever this is on here.

    thanks @Radler and all.
    IMG_0360.JPG

    the acetone process with plastic putty knife was better BUT
    also better at revealing whatever this is. This situ has evolved, my initial assessment the dark is a coating is, for now, unconfirmed. It may be the brass was stained? (very shiny, darkness)

    The anomaly in the center remains mysterious.
    IMG_0361.JPG

    I am now convinced there is not a hard coating significant enough to completely block any evidence at all of stamped lettering. I have uncovered lettering beneath crud often enough, this is unlike those examples. Not sure i can explain it adequately but this is different and may be that the brass itself is stained ? (no layer on top)
    Sad to report this thread is not, at all, a "good example" for removing lacquer.
    I will abort the effort at this time... but why? read on
    -------------------------------

    The objective was to reveal lettering... i consider Iani's 216 and am now convinced mine does not have lettering on the bottom.

    I note *the bottom DOES have machining evidence that the bottom piece was spun...
    it is the only 215/216 I have seen with this? Many examples do not show the bottom (bottoms might not have lettering either?).
    Iani guesstimated his as a match to 1903 catalog.
    Mine, I would say it's too soon to say but i get the *impression it is closer to 1903 (vs 1910).
    My burner is not the earliest Primus roarer (pre 1898) but is fairly early, might be c. 1903.
    IMG_0363.JPG

    filler cap
    IMG_0364.JPG
    thanks to all once again.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2021
  7. igh371

    igh371 SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi Mark, finally got an opportunity to pull my 1911 '215' out to compare. The difference is quite marked, where your tank base shows clear signs of having been shaped by spinning, there is no evidence of mine having been spun. Note the different filler caps too.
    DSC00959.JPG DSC00965.JPG

    The implications seem to be that either a die press was brought in to supplant the spinning process for producing tank bases in-between the 2 dates of production, yours obviously being the earlier, or that there was occasional resort to out sourcing or older machinery as and when necessary.
    Ian:thumbup:
     
  8. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi @OMC. Thinking about the centre circular mark on the base of your stove tank...

    Could it be from the securing method used to hold the centred spinning metal disc on the former during manufacture?

    Could the spinning disc be secured by friction alone or would it be attached to the wooden former by a screw (the hole could be braze filled after forming?



    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
  9. OMC

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    Thank you @kerophile,
    In hand, I lean towards the center being damaged but it is a mystery.
    Myself, without ability to "scope" inside tank and strictly a guess: the inside would reveal, whatever it is, is on the outside but i do not know.
    There are early Primus tank bottoms that were spun i don't recall an anomaly in the center of those?
    thanks again
     
  10. OMC

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    all, @kerophile, @igh371, there is more than what i will mention that can be learned from the following early Primus examples leading up to and incl. Primus 1911 discus tank.
    note: A. Ian's 1911 215 shows us the 100 did not necessarily replace the 215/216 (maybe we knew that).
    B. recent ads have emerged that might narrow year ranges more than what i show below.

    my above 215 *pre-1911: Pri*mus logo, crescent text on top, tank/small-female to rizer, boss for reserve lid, smaller filler cap (stove image), ★PRIMUS★MADE in SWEDEN pump cap (no bevel), steel shaft, vent screw PRIMUS|blank,
    no text on bottom, *spun bottom. *closer to 1903 vs 1910 maybe.

    Iani 216: pre-1911: Pri*mus logo, crescent text on top, tank/small-female to rizer, boss for reserve lid, smaller filler cap (stove image), ★PRIMUS★MADE in SWEDEN pump cap (no bevel), steel shaft, vent screw PRIMUS|blank,
    no text on bottom

    Ian 215 1911: Pri*mus logo, 6 language text on top, tank/small-female to rizer, boss for reserve lid,
    larger filler cap, ★PRIMUS★MADE in SWEDEN pump cap (beveled), brass shaft, vent screw PRIMUS|blank,
    circle text incl.

    @Oskarsweden Congrats!!**
    Oskarsweden 100: pre-1911: Pri*mus logo, crescent text on top, ...rizer: see note..., no boss, smaller filler cap (stove image), _?_ pump _?_ shaft, vent screw PRIMUS|blank, discus tank,
    bottom circle text incl. AKTBOL B.A.HJORTH Stockholm (<-- dating clue?, AKTBOL)
    We note the tank to rizer was repaired and possibly (probably?) with non-original parts.
    The size of the tank's top opening is unconfirmed
    but,
    for me the repair does not appear to be large enough to conceal a female-large opening (for lipstick)?
    IF that were to hold true?, it makes this example all the more unique and interesting. As it is, it is
    **the earliest known Primus discus tank, yes?
    Note: as the 215/216 (ie bottom) differs from discus tanks.

    kerophile 100: 1911 Pri*mus logo, 6 language text on top, tank/female-large to lipstick burner, large reserve lid, no boss, larger filler cap, ★PRIMUS★MADE in SWEDEN pump cap (beveled) _?_ shaft, vent screw PRIMUS|blank, discus tank,
    bottom circle text incl. A/B B.A.HJORTH STOCKHOLM

    I've had the impression the Primus 100 was the first known discus tank.
    Open question, from what we've seen to-date:
    Is the Primus 100 the earliest known discus tank? the 215/216 is similar and earlier and there may be other earlier/similar designs. The discus tank does have exact characteristics of it's own,
    to-date earliest known being Oskar's Primus 100?

    search tags earliest Primus discus tank, Primus 100, Primus 215, Primus 216, No.100, No.215, No. 216
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021