Rugged Rogers M1950 Refuses to Give Up!

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by paradise glenn, Jan 7, 2018.

  1. paradise glenn

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    Got it at a yard-sale for $5 and I've had this 1952 Army stove for at least 20 years, but never used it beyond a test-firing just to see if it worked. There was a problem with sputtering and low pressure, so it went back into it's case and sat on the shelf. For liquid gas I already had my SVEA 123, no need for an alternative.

    Fast Forward and I just wondered if I could get it to work and there were all sorts of things wrong. For starters I couldn't fill it because the outer pump cylinder that you have to pull out to fill the tank was corroded and stuck solidly to the fuel-tank opening. I made a tool from a piece of hardwood whittled into a long tapered cone that fit into the stuck cylinder so it could be jiggled around, twisted and finally pulled out. It was filthy and black. Cleaning with one of those abrasive scrubbers got it all shiny and if fit easily again. Some Coleman fuel and almost lighting but that leak prevented ever reaching any operating pressure. Also there was a little fire around the pump-housing, so that's where the pressure leak is. I made a leather gasket that didn't quite work, but I think the problem might be in the threads of that outer gnurled ring that the pump tightens into... wrench marks on it and it might not fit right. JB Weld will probably solve that.

    But a larger problem showed itself as I looked into the tank with my flashlight, it looked like heavy Diesel-Fuel inside, but shaking it around I saw it was the nice clean Coleman fuel mixed with ROCKS and MUD!

    Maybe this was someone's idea of a joke, or maybe they were just "paying some guy back."
    It doesn't matter, because it all comes out as a big problem Many Years Later!!!

    The plan is to tear it all down and try to empty the fuel tank through the top hole where the burner pipe threads in. The Job for this morning.

    It would certainly be easier if the filler-collar inside the tank could either be removed or just didn't go so far into the tank so NOTHING comes OUT that way... (to be continued!).
     
  2. ROBBO55

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  3. paradise glenn

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    (Continued) About 6 hours later: It didn't go as planned. Stripping the stove down I couldn't get the valve-stem and supply line coming from the center of the tank out. These images of a cracked brass fitting kept going through my head and after really pushing with a crescent wrench with good leverage, THAT thread was really stuck in there.

    I ended up getting most of the sediment and fuel out by just shaking it out over an empty coffee can, then pouring it back in with a funnel for another episode of the same. I don't think there was rust, but something else. The aluminum cap has some strange stuff on it, all copper-colored from the burner-end of the stove being in contact with it. Some strong chemical action there and for some reason I think of acid.

    The worn ring holding the pump into the tank was JB Weld(ed) in and I put everything back together, filled the tank with fresh fuel and tried again, expecting some results. No difference!

    I even put the spare leather pump-tip on, which certainly worked much better, but there was still flames around the pump occasionally that needed snuffing. And there was NO improvement in the stove's performance. It still barely started, and if I wanted the flame to continue had to keep pumping.

    OK. I'm done. The leather seal around the top of the pump might be leaking, might need to be thicker, but it looks well-formed from the compression.
    There might be clogs in the line somewhere that just won't sustain an open flame. Anybody got any ideas?
     
  4. paradise glenn

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    Thanks Martin!
    I see one seal I don't have that could be causing nasty things to happen...
    These old things are missing parts. Maybe it dried up and fell apart. I need to find a substitute, like an "O" ring from Home Depot.
    That's a really great article and fine photographs!
     
  5. Billofthenorth

    Billofthenorth Subscriber

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    A few days soaking those stubborn threads with a penetrant like kroil might help you get the valve stem loose. Then, with knob removed carefully clamp the valve stem in a vise and turn it out by holding the fount. Some people will use a belt type oil filter wrench around the fount but there is a risk of crushing. It's more delicate than it appears.

    Once the valve stem is out, the internals are more or less intuitive and the pics in the link above should give you some good insight.
    You'll need to replace the donut (o-ring) that acts as the fuel shut off, the pip at the bottom of the pump and most likely the gasket that seals the pump. Your leather pump cup may be okay after it's been oiled. Give it a good soak for an hour or so.

    A few pics of your stove would give us an idea of what exactly you are working with.
    All the necessary info. can be found right here and your questions answered.

    Good luck and welcome to the forum.

    Here's a link to the usual parts requiring replacement.
    https://www.oldcolemanparts.com/product.php?productid=3256
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  6. paradise glenn

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    Thanks Bill-
    That's a good link. (And your descriptions helpful!)
    I found an "O" ring on ebay (pack of 10) that might work to keep that gosh-darned pump from leaking. One that was in the "spare-parts" drawer was close but the wrong diameter on the ring. Based on what I've observed so far if the pump could hold pressure that might be the only fix required.
    "Fettering" seems to be what I've been doing for quite a while, but I just didn't know it: Happy to be here!
    -glenn
     
  7. cottage hill bill

    cottage hill bill Subscriber

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    Don't waste your time or money on the o rings from ebay (unless they're from a known stove/lantern supplier), get the right parts from the Old Coleman Parts link given above. If the o rings you buy off ebay aren't fuel resistant you'll just waste time and create more problems. As mentioned above, the internal o rings will need replaced.
     
  8. paradise glenn

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    You have a point. But for now, all I'm trying to do is isolate this problem. The Coleman parts would no doubt have all those other qualities and I have the link saved for Actual and Official Parts!
    While I wait I'm going to take and post some pics.
     
  9. paradise glenn

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    Friday Jan 12th: Got the parts yesterday evening so the first thing this morning was to fix it, and fix it good.
    I knew the problem was in the pump and that it just wouldn't seal to hold pressure. The new, official gasket was a tough fit because the brass housing of the pump was distorted. I had to work to pry it open a bit where it had been crushed and then file it all smooth on the edge. The gasket then fit quite well and I figured that was it. The pump REALLY worked now and every stroke produced pressure in the tank. It primed with no hesitation and I lit it up. All was fine until I noticed flames (like before) around the pump and clearly coming from the pump and it was a LOT of fuel coming out... There was a real bonfire going there for a few seconds before I just used the tall aluminum case to snuff everything out. Then I tightened everything up and tried again and there was no difference. This was dangerous. The only thing I hadn't done was replace the check-valve seal. It was loose in the threads at least it was easy to remove. Everything was there but I put a new rubber pip in that tiny brass cup, stretched the spring a bit and reassembled.
    This time the pump was quiet and a little stiffer to push because the pressure was staying in the tank and not leaking out, even slowly. When it had been oozing fuel it was because of the pressure increase in the heated tank.
    The problem has been solved!

    the bench.jpg case-top with gunk.jpg Special tools & spare parts.jpg the little monster.jpg starting-up!.jpg running.jpg

    The only thing left to do is put on the new decal!
     
  10. itchy

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    Good presence of mind to put it out in a reasonable manner. Glad you got it working.
     
  11. paradise glenn

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    Thanks, Itchy-
    It was more effort than the plan, but I guess you never know...?
    That, I suspect, is the alternative use for that aluminum case! (But at that moment a kind of desperation because I was worried about an explosion if it wasn't extinguished quickly!)
     
  12. hikerduane

    hikerduane Subscriber

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    Surprised as long as it took to work on the check valve, that you figured it out. The pump doesn't hold pressure in the tank.
    Duane
     
  13. paradise glenn

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    There was SOME pressure, but not much because it was leaking from what I assumed was the non-existent seal. That it worked at all initially had to have been because it was stuck together with corrosion. The check valve didn't seem that important until I had to realize what it's supposed to do. (And what happens when it doesn't.)
    I like the SVEA 123 with just that control valve. It's a whole different game when you have a pump to pressurize the tank: more complicated and lots of things can go wrong. You need those spare parts and regular maintenance, or at least to be aware of what to focus on for safety.
    Personally, the best "cook-stove" I ever had was a little lump of "that white play-doh!" But for some reason that's really difficult to get unless you're in the trade. I don't think they have that at Home Depot. =D
     
  14. hikerduane

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    A good learning experience, you're ready now to get more stoves.
    Duane
     
  15. paradise glenn

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    Hahaha! Yes it was! (A real adventure!)
    Now in collection:
    2 White Gas
    5 or 6 Alcohol (DIY)
    2 Wood-gasification stoves (DIY)
    3 Propane
    2 Solar: Lens & Mirror
    Fire steels, bow-drills, etc.

    But I suppose I could always get another one...
     
  16. hikerduane

    hikerduane Subscriber

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    When can you use the wood stoves, especially where you're at?
    Duane
     
  17. paradise glenn

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    I use premium hardwood pellets. If you've drilled all the holes in the right places the stove doesn't smoke and works very efficiently.
    I prefer using the SVEA but the weak link is the fuel. The same with propane and denatured alcohol. A multi-fuel approach, so no matter what there's a way to camp and cook.