Russian 8R clone question

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by Andy t, Nov 13, 2016.

  1. OMC

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    Hello Spudgun,
    Congrats on scoring a PT 1. Yours has CCCP logo top left and Chernyshev logo bottom right.
    Note Gieorgi image just above also has those 2 logos, his image is a 1980. We might tentatively place yours to be 1980 or earlier?
    Another reason I post is to update tentative PT1 year range. Above Gieorgi shared a hand-written "1973" in the meanwhile I've found PT1 w/Chernyshev logo and instructions stamped "73".

    RE year range: NLT = Not Later Than, NET = Not Earlier Than
    PT1 production year range, tentatively:
    beginning: NLT 1973
    ending: NET Dec 1991

    It is still not known if PT1s were only made in one facility 73-91 (or not)? One known location is amidst "The Chernyshev Moscow Machine-Building Enterprise".
    thx omc
    tag @Spudgun
     
  2. Spudgun

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    Thanks OMC, great info.
     
  3. Spudgun

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  4. Spudgun

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    My Russian is non-existent, maybe Gieorgi could translate the pic of date stamped info?
     
  5. OMC

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    Way to go Spud,
    Thank you. Maybe too soon to say (but I will anyway), for sake of ongoing "discussion" it certainly looks like a legit 67 PT1, and that's a new one on me.
    Putting tentative year range for PT1 production:
    beginning: NLT Apr. 1967 to
    ending: NET Dec 1991


    I note the very prominant "8" on the instructions and on stove case. I may be mistaken (and probably should do some double checking) but I do not recall seeing the big 8 on later examples.

    Myself Gieorgi and several others have not actually translated the instructions for dates, the date stamping is legible and has been consistent.

    I have translated quite a bit while sleuthing these PT1s (not easy).
    Front cover of the 67 is
    примус (we have seen)
    Prymus

    BUT from date page, is this:
    паспорт
    (passport)
    I do not recall seeing паспорт/passport.

    It has been widely accepted PT1 is Russian version based on an Optimus 8R.

    Your 67 is VERY new information and the only pre 73 example (I'm aware of, there will be more) BUT
    what I see,
    from what you shared, the possibility emerges,
    a 67 PT1 may have been aka Prymus Passport 8.
    Later referred to as Prymus Tourist 1, PT1.

    Instructions (no box) but this 67 and also with early 70s PT1 examples the packaging and paper is significantly different than later PT1s that have many years of same basic instructions and packaging w/slight variations.

    67 PT1, hmmm, a very interesting development
    thx omc

    tag @Spudgun @gieorgijewski @kerophile

    s-l1600e.jpg

    s-l1600a$40BIN+27May2017.jpg
     
  6. Spudgun

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    Maybe a cloned 8 rather than the 8R?
     
  7. Spudgun

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    Just a thought but in the absence of anything earlier than 67, that ties in with the US Phantoms deploying to Vietnam and totally outclassing the Mig-21's against them. The Soviets had already equipped their airforce and had enough excess to equip all their satellite states but if their frontline fighter is outclassed the Chernyshev factory might have had excess capacity at that time until R and D brought the next generation of aircraft online?
     
  8. gieorgijewski

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    i think earliest 01-1967
    [​IMG]
    but
    quality mark CCCP
    possibly from 20 апреля 1967 /not existed before/
    -----
    edit
    we are in 1964
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  9. OMC

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    Thx Gieorgi,
    Kerophile, Gieorgi,
    85-93 were tumultuous years within Russia.
    My PT1 year range, far above, began pre85 to 91 (wrong!, and so far off :oops:).
    Re production ending NET 1991, you two have not pressed me on that, TY.

    Especially given that 1993 PT1 was already established per content here
    This sole 93 example is somewhat of a revelation and is an indicator that Chernyshev manufacturing of the PT1 (which was in the thick of it), somehow, some way was managed and continued through
    Perestroika (85-88),
    Catasroika (87-91, failed Perestoika exacerbated downfall of the Union, a catastrophe for all but the oligarchs),
    1991, December dissolution, collapse of what was the Soviet Union
    1993 PT1s still being manufactured in Moscow.

    SO, while we (Spudgun & Gieorgi) have moved the production year range backwards from 1985 to 1964 (wow!)...

    All,
    We have equal interest in examples found 1993 and later?

    If production survived the enormous challenges 85-91, when/why did it eventually end? Did it end?
    as we roll on, thx omc
    tag @kerophile @gieorgijewski
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  10. gieorgijewski

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    @OMC
    i've read last post 18 min after Yours last message
    but i have no alert again (!)
     
  11. OMC

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    A couple cross references to add:

    Thank you Andi @Andi
    and WELCOME.

    hello @gieorgijewski , all,
    Andi "the new guy", the great Ukrainian :content: reminds us
    " Turist " ... how did we miss that. Thank you Andi, Turist is an important search cross reference for this post, better late than never :oops:.
    Thank you also for the reference posts you are adding, You're on a roll !, posting several Russian examples, each one nice :thumbup:, :thumbup:, :thumbup:, :thumbup:, :thumbup: !!!!!

    Andi posted his PT-1 adding "Manufacturer Moscow Plant for Machine-Building "Krasnyi Oktyabr""

    So, we're well aware a PT1 production company was/is:
    [ chernyshev uec - ММП им. В.В. Чернышевa ]
    The Chernyshev Moscow Machine-Building Enterprise
    (Вишневая,7 ~ Cherry,7?) Moscow Russia.
    This is a PT1 production facility w/known location and history.

    re:
    > Manufacturer Moscow Plant for Machine-Building "Krasnyi Oktyabr""

    "Krasnyi Oktyabr" lead me to
    > Volgogradskiy Metallurgicheskiy Zavod Krasny Oktyabr
    one of Russia's largest metal production facilities.
    Also a facility w/known location and history but in Stalingrad, above says Moscow.
    So, I guess this company is not PT-1 related? You did not say it was, it seems I've drifted away with it.. This wiki article only scratches the surface, that is interesting piece of history too fwiw.
    Only after I find that plant, after I post, I then find the obvious :oops: oops, [edit]:
    красный октябрь = krasnyy oktyabr' = Red October
    Anyway just adding a couple cross references.
    Any and all comments welcome.
    thx omc
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2018
  12. gieorgijewski

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    Московское машиностроительное предприятие имени В. В. Чернышёва
    link!

    Названия предприятия
    (time line for names)
    Прежние названия предприятия:

    с 1932 года — Завод № 63 ГВФ,
    с 1933 года — Завод № 82 ГВФ,
    с 1936 года — Завод № 82 НИИ ГВФ,
    с 1938 года -заввод № 82 НКВД,
    с 1940 года — Завод № 82 Наркомавиапрома,
    с августа 1941 по февраль 1942 завод находился в эвакуации в Казани,
    с 1942 года — Завод № 500 НКАП,
    с 1963 года — Завод «Красный Октябрь» МАП,
    с 1983 года — ММП имени В. В. Чернышева.
     
  13. OMC

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    Ah ha.
    Quick hint for all
    if multi-language Gieorgi posts a link, it may be in Polish, Russian, German or who knows what.
    The hint for the English speaking site, highlight his link, google it, like with this case a perfect match may pop, hit "translate this page" (instead of clicking on title).

    Ah ha !!
    So Gieorgi,
    Do we understand from you
    Московское машиностроительное предприятие имени В. В. Чернышёва
    aka Moscow machine-building enterprise named after V. Chernyshev
    aka The Chernyshev Moscow Machine-Building Enterprise, Moscow Russia.

    in '63 was aka года — Завод «Красный Октябрь» МАП,
    Red October Plant same,
    was Красный Октябрь / Krasnyi Oktyabr, a Moscow plant within same company: ***The Chernyshev Moscow Machine-Building Enterprise.
    ***Not so long ago I was viewing GPS images of the company's grounds on google maps.
    I gotta run but that is my impression of what you are adding. thx omc
    view count 2525
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2018
  14. Andi

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    Thank you very much for presenting me on the forum. I would be glad to help everyone.
     
  15. gieorgijewski

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    the same factory - use different names - in time
    at first name was coded (- We know similar in Germany "Waffenamt Code")
    Very interesting are changes of "rulers" or "owners" of this factory

    Гражданский воздушный флот (ГВФ) mean гражданскaя авиация


    НИИ ГВФ, н
    аучно-исследовательский институт гражданской авиации

    НКВД Наро́дный комиссариа́т вну́тренних дел СССР

    НКАП Народный комиссариат авиационной промышленности СССР (НКАП)
     
  16. OMC

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    OLD THREAD
    While we're on naming variations, Marsh site references:
    PT-1 manufacturer as; Moscow Engineering Society V.V. Czernyshev,
    same source another cross reference; Primus Turistskij

    One Czernyshev Moscow plant making PT-1s, AFIK so far. Myself not yet certain if some PT-1s may also have been made elsewhere at some point?

    COLORS
    The many repainted examples aside, another developing detail is that the PT-1s original colors are more than a few.
    The examples below (and hammered blue is poor example, the color that most resembles the 8R), and I know there is another darker grey, maybe 2 more and surely more than these I'd expect, over 30 some years.
    PT1colorABC.jpg

    PT1colorDO.jpg
    [note to self: my attempt/intent was for 5 same size examples above, the bottom pair post much larger than the trio above them... so I have room to improve]

    Link --> is to the bright orange 1985 gieorgi example above, link . On my wish list btw hint hint.

    Drift alert PT-1 version celebrating "*World Festival of Youth. 1985" ..a fascinating story in itself... promote PEACE on earth.
    The wiki article that pops for my own search of that YOUTH for PEACE (etc.) festival... I have to consider that current source, possibly a western slanted view from what I read.

    The simple mottos of each festival sends a message of the time (from that place) over decades past, 1947 - 2017 and continues on!
    I have no doubt there are senior members of the global organization that could share interesting stories of their 1st hand experience of those many festivals around the world. Stories, that US / UK (Imperialists) or Russia etc. (communists) prefer instead to be told from their viewpoint (and if so, I'd guess result would be 2 nearly opposite observations of the same non-government event :content:).

    The kids these days... God love them.
    thx omc
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  17. OMC

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    > re colors (above) here I'll add a better example. Worth adding as it maybe the most common color?
    (and oldest known PT1 example to date)
    Another tidbit to consider, I share a "1966"? in box, early PT1.
    ("R-5-66", pics w/seller's consent):
    s-l1600.jpg

    s-l1600a$70+30.jpg

    s-l1600b.jpg

    s-l1600c.jpg

    s-l1600f.jpg

    so, way above we have 1967, this one may be a '66, with that i'll offer an
    UPDATE:
    PT1 production year range, tentatively:
    beginning: NLT 1966
    ending: NET Dec 1991
    thx omc out
    tag @gieorgijewski
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  18. gieorgijewski

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    No...
    No...
    metal case/box signature is
    К-5-66
    paspt1.jpg
    thats PT-1 was:
    sale 5.08.1974
    produced 5.02.1974
    ------
    checked by controler (Quality)No:- К-5-66 - this is ID number of Thats Man...
    @OMC
     
  19. OMC

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    OLD THREAD Pardon drift.
    I want to share one interesting PT1 example (several such PT1s recently sold on ebay), from Kharkiv, Ukraine.
    I'm not criticizing, in pointing out ad does not disclose change-out of stove's burner (and we also don't know how.what parts used to complete such change).
    WE HAVE seen examples with same result in past. This is several examples offered for sale at same time... this we hadn't yet seen. Here you go:
    title of ad: Classic Field Stove Optimus Hunter 8R with silent burner
    Alpinist PT1 portable


    s-l1600.jpg
    s-l1600dUpsideDwn.jpg

    From Ad:
    Portable camp stove "PT-1" is a detailed design of the legendary Swedish stove "Optimus 8R HUNTER".
    This design first went on sale in 1938 and is still considered one of the most convenient and reliable gasoline burners.
    Simple reliable design - for many years of use.
    Fuel: petrol / gasoline car / gasoline extraction / benzin car / gasoline aviation / Coleman fuel.
    Stove is in worked condition, made in USSR 1970-80 years. Installed silent burner, Including stainless funnel and full repair service kit
    Stove works both in the crackling frost - 30 degrees Celsius and the biggest heat waves - plus 40 degrees Celsius
    Economical to operate, easy to handle, with military equipment, survival, ideal for hiking, climbing, biking, fishing, hunting, trekking, trapper, for the soldiers, scouts, police, paramilitary, rallies, events, racing drivers, boaters, kayakers, sailors, natural disasters and others
    Solid metal primus stove for cooking and boiling water in the field.
    Firing time ~ 1 minutes - an exciting job.
    Time 1 liter of boiling water ~ 7 minutes.
    Tank capacity - 0.120 litres
    -----end----
    PS I don't fault the seller, I really don't. He could improve ad but there's plenty I could improve in life in hindsight as well :content: .
    It would be unfortunate if buyer thought they were buying an Optimus 8R w/ (Optimus) silent burner installed. Seller does not make it clear either way, title is more indicative of Optimus 8R than Russian PT1, it is a PT1. I'd guess with zero "Optimus" parts.
    but
    pics are clear and
    buyer beware and
    most "stovies" would ID the PT1 or know to question an 8R type stove but w/silent burner.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019