Silent Burner Performance

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by Merkwurdichliebe, Jun 21, 2020.

?

Is the glowing red hot burner cap a problem?

  1. yes

    6 vote(s)
    75.0%
  2. no

    2 vote(s)
    25.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Merkwurdichliebe

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  2. Merkwurdichliebe

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    Most photos I've seen on this site show a vintage silent burner with dozens of tiny blue flames, but the cap is not glowing red.
    This stove lights up with little effort, it is very quiet and has a beautiful blue flame. I'm just not sure if I'm destroying the burner cap (in the long run).
     
  3. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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    Is you stove still “silent”, or is it making a noise other than “hiss”?

    Tony

    @Merkwurdichliebe
     
  4. Merkwurdichliebe

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    The stove is almost silent with a small discernible hiss. In every way, the operation is unremarkable and seems "normal" ... except for my ignorance whether a glowing red burner cap is correct.
     
  5. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    @Merkwurdichliebe
    I’d be interested to see photos of the inner cap. Is the outer cap made of brass? They often glow red at a simmer setting, but I’ve not seen one do so at a higher output like yours, unless ‘underburning’ - which is what Kerophile’s exploring with his question about the sound.

    Have you experience of silent burners in proper operation? The sound of underburning is distinctive, but only if you’re used to not hearing it, if you see what I mean.

    Causes of underburning obscure, but change of caps, one of both, can make it go away. The vapourised fuel ignites below the caps, hence the ‘underburn’.
     
  6. Merkwurdichliebe

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    I am not experienced with silent burners. There is an upper clearance of 4mm between the inner and outer caps. IMG_6031.JPG
     
  7. Merkwurdichliebe

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  8. Laitch

    Laitch Subscriber

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    Is this the same stove featured in this thread eight years ago?
     
  9. Merkwurdichliebe

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    Yes, exactly the same. And in that time, I have not seen any vintage kerosine silent burners with this degree of glowing ... except the threads discussing under burning.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  10. Merkwurdichliebe

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    Considering the ease of operation, efficiency, cleanliness and heat output of this stove, I'm seeking a diagnosis from an experienced operator whether this one phenomenon is a cause for concern. Or is simply a characteristic of a healthy stove. (hopefully the sound from the above video will help)
    Thank you in advance for opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  11. Laitch

    Laitch Subscriber

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    How much have you used the stove since you restored it?
     
  12. Merkwurdichliebe

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    I've used it 1-2x/yr without incident and in full ignorance that a glowing cap might be an issue.

    This afternoon I replaced the brass burner cap with an old iron version (roughly the same size) and the iron version did not glow at all. Is it possible that this issue is related to the properties of the brass cap and NOT an issue of under burn?

    Iron

    IMG_1472.JPG

    Brass
    IMG_9131.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  13. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi @Merkwurdichliebe it is well known that brass outer silent caps can glow even when there is no under- burn. Have a look at this old thread:

    Svea No.105

    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
  14. Merkwurdichliebe

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    Kerophile,
    Thank you very much for pulling up this info. Assuming the glow is acceptable for brass caps, does the video with sound that you questioned a normal sound?
     
  15. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi @Merkwurdichliebe Your brass burner does not sound as if it is suffering under-burn.

    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
  16. Merkwurdichliebe

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    Thank you
    Thank you
    Thank you!

    I can now enjoy this stove without that little grain of fear.
     
  17. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Brass exhibits higher thermal emission in the visible spectrum than does steel as a function of temperature. (Assuming a similar oxidised surface finish on both materials, and operating below the melting point of both metals.)

    It is for this reason that brass, rather than steel is chosen for the radiant heater shrouds or caps used on those stoves with heater attachments:

    Primus 110 burner

    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
  18. Merkwurdichliebe

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    So in this case, the brass and Iron caps are roughly the same temperature

    Is brass is chosen as a safety measure to give a visible warning to people that the heater is "hot"?
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  19. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Just like the red STOP signal on traffic lights!

    The main advantage of infrared heaters is that they provide instant heat.
    Instead of warming the air like other conventional heaters, infrared heaters heat objects directly in their paths. Heating the air wastes energy and the benefits of the heat aren't felt immediately. The rays produced by infrared heaters penetrate and warm you beneath the skin. The infrared rays radiate outward, heating all nearby objects, producing a widespread effect. This all happens immediately, with no need to wait for the heat to build up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  20. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    Not likely. Brass because it wouldn’t rust. In time, ‘Primus Metal’ (a form of stainless steel) and equivalents from other manufacturers removed the issue of steel cap corrosion/erosion.

    I tend to put aside brass caps in storage, with a preference for steel caps to avoid that red glow. An aesthetic thing.